CHL Man kills attempted carjacker in NE Houston - Page 3

CHL Man kills attempted carjacker in NE Houston

This is a discussion on CHL Man kills attempted carjacker in NE Houston within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by redstgunnut The shooter likely has problems. He was not in jeopardy, if ever, until after he confronted a man over property. Apparently ...

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Thread: CHL Man kills attempted carjacker in NE Houston

  1. #31
    Member Array KralBlbec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by redstgunnut View Post
    The shooter likely has problems. He was not in jeopardy, if ever, until after he confronted a man over property. Apparently the carjacking effort was over before the man intervened with deadly force. Once the carjacking victim's safety was secured, he likely had no right to go on the offense as described.
    I just dont get this. The shooter did not start the problem. The BG did by robbing cars. Law says you can intervene in the commission of a felony, that means when he confronted the BG he had the law on his side to do so.


  2. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    How can anyone be so callous regarding the loss of a life? Regardless of the choices this person made, or even others, it is still the loss of a life. Do you know his life story? It could have been any number of things. In need of things to sell for drugs, mental condition-maybe off meds for whatever reason, trying to feed his kids – all speculation I know. But the fact is we do not know why – or not yet. His reason does not make it right to break into cars. But when people get desperate – they do desperate things. I guess I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Somewhere I am sure this “BG” has family – you think they are glad one more “BG” is gone? To make light of the loss of life is beyond me.
    Do you know my life story???? Maybe I have had dealings with enough BG's to color my world this way. And on the "people get desperate" comment, do you know how desperate was the VICTOM, (aka shooter) here. If he lost his car maybe he could not work and feed his family, maybe it was the only thing he had left, see you don't know his situation either. The BG had a chance to walk away the first time, and did not.

    McDonalds, Burger King, exc. are always hiring, he had choices and chose wrong.

    Bottom line, am I glad he is dead---no, I just wish they would not put themselves in that situation to happen. I do happen to agree with Texas law----If property is not worth defending then why have it??
    An ounce of lead is worth 200lbs of cop.

  3. #33
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Assuming the details are correct ...

    A criminal is stopped in the act of a property crime ... goes on to commit further property crimes ... is witnessed violently attacking another resident ... and then attacks a man and his wife directly. The man stops the criminal's attack, and the criminal dies later in hospital.

    Quote Originally Posted by DaRedneck View Post
    Thoughts about this? Do you think the guy should have left it alone after already confronting the man and having already called the police 2 times?
    "Left it alone" after having personally witnessed multiple crimes by the guy, including a violent person crime, and after personally having been attacked by the guy?

    I'd say it's sufficient justification to stop the attack.

    It'll hinge on the details, and it's hard to assume that we've got them based on one news article.

    So, it's hard to say what sufficient force would be, because one cannot know how vicious or violent the criminal's attack on the couple was. Obviously the criminal wasn't afraid or daunted in the least, by having two people there. And ... it's Texas, which doesn't allow charges via D.A. whim.

    Quote Originally Posted by redstgunnut View Post
    [The citizen / couple] was not in jeopardy, if ever, until after he confronted a man over property. Apparently the carjacking effort was over before the man intervened with deadly force. Once the carjacking victim's safety was secured, he likely had no right to go on the offense as described.
    While the scant details don't make it perfectly clear, they suggest that the following happened: the criminal was seen burglarizing, then attacking another person; a husband and wife approach to stop the crime, at which point the criminal attacks both of them violently. If that's true, then it seems clear that the force the citizen used was to stop the violent person crime being committed against them, irrespective of whether a mere property crime got their initial attention. The Grand Jury hopefully will hear these details. Uncertain if we ever will.

    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    How can anyone be so callous regarding the loss of a life? Regardless of the choices this person made, or even others, it is still the loss of a life.
    His life story and motivations for committing violent crime aren't relevant. Little Johnny was a good boy? Says who? He might have been the Avon Lady. So what? He was seen committing multiple crimes. He was stopped during commission of his last one, a violent person crime. While that may be worthy of condolences to the criminal's family, and worth feeling a bit sorry for his pitiful choices, it's not worth much hand-wringing or distress over having stopped a violent criminal caught in the act. Sorry. If he didn't want an adult response, he shouldn't have been committing adult crimes. My $0.02.
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  4. #34
    VIP Member Array Harryball's Avatar
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    Thank God for no flee laws. Texes has it right on the mark. The citizens of this country can protect it better than the police. To the gentlemen that asked about the BGs feelings, I almost **** myself laughing at your remarks. Sorry his feelings were thrown out the window when he decided to violate others property. Just my .02

  5. #35
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    Quote Originally Posted by FlyboyLDB View Post
    How can anyone be so callous regarding the loss of a life? Regardless of the choices this person made, or even others, it is still the loss of a life. Do you know his life story? It could have been any number of things. In need of things to sell for drugs, mental condition-maybe off meds for whatever reason, trying to feed his kids – all speculation I know. But the fact is we do not know why – or not yet. His reason does not make it right to break into cars. But when people get desperate – they do desperate things. I guess I like to give people the benefit of doubt. Somewhere I am sure this “BG” has family – you think they are glad one more “BG” is gone? To make light of the loss of life is beyond me.
    ARE YOU KIDDING ME??? After several failed attempts at breaking into cars and not getting anything, it would have been SOMEONES WIFE AND CHILD on the way out to the car to go to WORK (something this loser did not seem to want to do) that would have been robbed or worse. I CRY NO TEARS FOR THIS SCUM BAG! Keep that "loss of human life... reasons why the BG was being a BG" [Edited]! I have kids to feed, a big ass house to pay for, really nice cars to afford and a crap load of guns... uh... toys to pay for. I go to work! Regardless of what the BG's problems were, he doesn't have the right to mess with my things or affect my quality of life. My life doesn't work without my wife. My life is enriched by my boys and no man has the right to [Edited] with either! I do not agree with your opinion. When the BG came down MY street, he choose to part with his life. I worked for the money that bought that pack of gum, I will take your life over it. WELCOME TO TEXAS!
    Last edited by Captain Crunch; June 9th, 2009 at 01:12 PM. Reason: Language workarounds.

  6. #36
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    Feeling sorry for the bad guy. Are they kidding? My sympathy is for the victims of his crime, not the criminal. Whatever circumstances that lead to his decision to resort to crime do not matter at all. He CHOSE that path and this is the consequences to be paid for it. All occupations have hazards. Apparently in Texas it is extremely hazardous to carjack with an armed citizen standing by.

    There have been times I did without, had menial jobs and ate hot dogs and bologna until we could afford better. Did I resort to stealing? No, I have more pride, knowing that someday I will get out of the bad stuff. Feeling no sorrow for the criminal at all. He got everything he deserved and more. Good riddance and may more of them bite the dust just like this one.
    "A Smith & Wesson always beats 4 aces!"

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  7. #37
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natticarry View Post
    correct, as someone said Joe Horn shot someone who was fleeing after robbing his neighbors house.
    Whoever said that was wrong. The robbers were headed for Joe Horn's house.

  8. #38
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    I heard the 911 tape of Joe Horn's shooting (ONCE). In it he called on the BG's to stop and then said something like this: oh they are on my property and coming toward me I am afraid for my life (or safety don't remember) sound of gun shots. I remember at the time that he had covered all the bases ON TAPE that makes it a good shoot. Even here in Texas I never heard the whole tape again! All they played was the first part where the 911 operator was telling him to stand down. For what it is worth the next day I went over to my neighbor and asked him to protect my home if I was away and he asked me the same thing so we will be covered on that question.

  9. #39
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    I'll have to agree with the "Space Cowboy"
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  10. #40
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    To All:

    Down here in Texas we don't care about your life experience or how bad you have had things in life.

    With that being said, I will continue; Life is about choices. Everyday you make a choice that can potentially affect the rest of your life, like when you decide to get married or have children. This individual chose to burglarize cars and harass people and attempt to carjack someone's vehicle.

    They used to hang horse thieves down here in the good old days. I admire the guy and his wife for having the stones to stand up to this cretin and give him his due. My only problem with them was attempting to save the BG after they shot him. Not because they felt guilty about shooting him, but of the health hazards regarding disease, etc. Better left to EMS folks.

    As far as whether he will be charged or not, I doubt it seriously even more so than Joe Horn. Joe Horn had police on the way. These folks called twice and got no response. The BG in question didn't leave after confronted and caught, he simply moved on to other potential victims, with no intention whatsoever of stopping. When he was physically restrained from committing further crimes, he became violent and got what he deserved.

    Really, people we should be cheering this guy and buying him a beer. I guess it just shows how far we have slipped morally as a country when people even think this guy should be charged with any crime......
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  11. #41
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by edr9x23super View Post
    To All:

    Down here in Texas we don't care about your life experience or how bad you have had things in life.

    With that being said, I will continue; Life is about choices. Everyday you make a choice that can potentially affect the rest of your life, like when you decide to get married or have children. This individual chose to burglarize cars and harass people and attempt to carjack someone's vehicle.

    They used to hang horse thieves down here in the good old days. I admire the guy and his wife for having the stones to stand up to this cretin and give him his due. My only problem with them was attempting to save the BG after they shot him. Not because they felt guilty about shooting him, but of the health hazards regarding disease, etc. Better left to EMS folks.

    As far as whether he will be charged or not, I doubt it seriously even more so than Joe Horn. Joe Horn had police on the way. These folks called twice and got no response. The BG in question didn't leave after confronted and caught, he simply moved on to other potential victims, with no intention whatsoever of stopping. When he was physically restrained from committing further crimes, he became violent and got what he deserved.

    Really, people we should be cheering this guy and buying him a beer. I guess it just shows how far we have slipped morally as a country when people even think this guy should be charged with any crime......
    Couldn't have said it better myself!

  12. #42
    Distinguished Member Array Bunny's Avatar
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    I think it's time to move to Texas...
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  13. #43
    Member Array NCRonB's Avatar
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    I know this wasn't in NC, but for the record, per NCGS 15A-404, a private person is allowed to detain someone "in a reasonable manner considering the offense involved and the circumstances of the detention" when he has "probable cause to believe that the person detained has committed in his presence:

    (1) A felony,
    (2) A breach of the peace,
    (3) A crime involving physical injury to another person, or
    (4) A crime involving theft or destruction of property."

    I think even in NC a case could be made for this being legal self-defense. The shooter had a right to detain the thief and he did not use deadly force or even threaten deadly force until his assailant attacked him and his life was in jeopardy.

    It may have been dangerous and unwise by today's standards, but I applaud him for helping protect his community and wish more people felt a duty to do the same.

  14. #44
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    I won't be surprised to see the Sheriff taking the shooter out to lunch some time. This is just one less bad guy for patrol to worry about and one more free bed in the lock up. This guy just died from terminal stupidity. It is no secret, you do bad stuff in Texas long enough, someone is going to shoot you for it. Heck, I would like them set up a fund to reimburse the shooters in cases like this for the cost of their expended ammo. Considering how much they are saving the taxpayers I think it's the least we can do.
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  15. #45
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    I think he has problems, how can you fear for your life when you approached a second time. While I dont think the shooter was the aggressor, I do think its going to be hard to prove your life was in danger. Good Luck!!!!!

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