Home Invasion -- black clothing emblazoned with the word "police"

This is a discussion on Home Invasion -- black clothing emblazoned with the word "police" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Home invaders appear to pose as police - Roanoke.com Roanoke VA Not much detail. However, the beat goes on. IMHO, we need to modify the ...

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Thread: Home Invasion -- black clothing emblazoned with the word "police"

  1. #1
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    Thumbs down Home Invasion -- black clothing emblazoned with the word "police"

    Home invaders appear to pose as police - Roanoke.com

    Roanoke VA

    Not much detail.

    However, the beat goes on. IMHO, we need to modify the laws on impersonating a LEO to up the penalty (w/ mandatory consecutively served sentences) when when someone commits a felony while impersonating an LEO.

    WWIIW, When I saw this I thought of wolfshead's Starbucks OC story http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...eply&p=1184613

    The 's "Oh, I thought you were just ordinary guys with guns." sort of sums up too many 's automatic switch to the white zone, if they think (hope) someone looks like/says they are an LEO.

    If one assume no responsibility for one's own safety, if one assumes the police are their primary source of security, then that automatic switch is likely to be tripped by hope w/o much real scrutiny when even the word "Police" is seen.


    Home invaders appear to pose as police

    Police are investigating an apparent home invasion that took place Sunday in Southeast Roanoke.

    According to a news release, Roanoke police responded to a call shortly after 10 p.m. on Morehead Avenue. They were told that two people were at a residence when they heard a knock at the door.

    When one of them answered, two men carrying guns and wearing black masks and black clothing emblazoned with the word "police" entered the house.

    One of the victims was assaulted. The two men left after taking money and other items, and one fired a shot at the house.

    -- The Roanoke Times
    BTW -- in VA it is misdemeanor.

    18.2-174. Impersonating officer.

    Any person who shall falsely assume or exercise the functions, powers, duties and privileges incident to the office of sheriff, police officer, marshal, or other peace officer, or who shall falsely assume or pretend to be any such officer, shall be deemed guilty of a Class 1 misdemeanor.
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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Maybe the BG's have been reading this forum. I have seen many on here who argue that you should never try to defend yourself if the person kicking in your door yells police upon entry.

    You want to raise the impersonation charge to a felony? These guys were not hampered by the fact the other crime they were commiting was a felony. I doubt they care how many felonies they are doing.

    Michael

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    VIP Member Array ExactlyMyPoint's Avatar
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    OK. Given this scenario, what do you do? Someone kicks in your door shouting police and wearing POLICE on their clothing.

    This might have already been posted and not to hijack the thread, but thoughts, suggestions?
    Preparing for the Zombie Apocalypse or Rapture....whichever comes first.

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    Police never come in to someones house with a mask on,. . Mask on -------> Shoot,.... No Mask ----- > ??? What do you do?? That is a tough call,. Then again, Police would always knock and tell you it is the police,. Right???

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    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Maybe it WAS the police. Hmmmm?

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    Not just another felony

    Quote Originally Posted by mlr1m View Post
    You want to raise the impersonation charge to a felony? These guys were not hampered by the fact the other crime they were commiting was a felony. I doubt they care how many felonies they are doing.

    Michael
    Just another felony? You'd be right. As it stands, what's one more felony?

    However, as I said in my OP "mandatory consecutively served sentences."

    FWIIW, I also think all the laws about the "use of a firearm" in the commission of a felony should also be "mandatory consecutively served sentences." One for the felony of whatever, then when that time is served, another for the "use of a firearm" in the commission of a felony.

    IMHO, it's time we up the the cost-of-crime. [See my reaction at http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...21-years.html] ]

    WWISW, I've been told by some British friends that it is not a coincidental that gun crime started to go up over there when the death penalty was done away with. According to them, the use of a gun in a crime in the past always up the penalty for that crime. Someone died in a robbery, or whatever, with another weapon the BG might not die -- OTOH if the BG used a gun it was the death penalty. However, now there is no bigger risk for using a more effective weapon. I haven't researched it personally, but it ring true.
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    Member Array razz's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ExactlyMyPoint View Post
    OK. Given this scenario, what do you do? Someone kicks in your door shouting police and wearing POLICE on their clothing.

    This might have already been posted and not to hijack the thread, but thoughts, suggestions?
    I would tell them to show some credentials and I'll call 911 to see if they are really LEO before I open the door. Actually, I won't open the door if they don't have any warrants.

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    VIP Member Array obxned's Avatar
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    No flashing blue lights? Then I must assume it is NOT the police.
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    Senior Member Array Super Trucker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Police never come in to someones house with a mask on,. . Mask on -------> Shoot,.... No Mask ----- > ??? What do you do?? That is a tough call,. Then again, Police would always knock and tell you it is the police,. Right???
    I disagree, we watched a couple years ago a jump out team hit the rental house across the street. 2 vans pulled up and when the doors opened they were all wearing masks and had dark clothing on, carrying long guns, they did not knock on the door they basically took it down. From the time they pulled up it was less than 30 seconds until they were in the house.
    We later found out from the cop 2 doors down it was a task force of the ATF, DEA and county sheriff deputies.

    So yes they do come in the house "forcefully" wearing masks.

    If they have the wrong address, well I won't say publically what I have in mind.

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    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post

    FWIIW, I also think all the laws about the "use of a firearm" in the commission of a felony should also be "mandatory consecutively served sentences." One for the felony of whatever, then when that time is served, another for the "use of a firearm" in the commission of a felony.
    I'm with ya 100% on that. Trouble is how do we get the courts and parole boards to cooperate? The parole board has already ignored the wishes of a jury one that I know of here in Oklahoma by trying to parole someone sentenced to life without parole.

    We see juries give multible sentences to people only to have a Judge make the sentence concurrent. Guns in school is a federal crime with a mandatory sentence I believe. Schools take it upon themselves and do not report it to police many times.

  12. #11
    VIP Member Array automatic slim's Avatar
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    When I was an LEO and we staged raids, everyone was in full uniform for the very reason of avoiding claims by those being raided that they didn't know if it really was the police.
    Sometimes we worked with other agencies who did prefer to wear BDU's, black T-shirts, etc. However they were always paired with someone in full uniform and we always arrived in marked units.
    We didn't try to throw the suspects off guard by our clothing, but by hitting them in the dead of night or early on a weekend morning.
    I know they do it different on "Cops", but arriving dressed like a Ninja, just gives the suspect a viable defense for what he clains looked like a home invasion since anyone can silkscreen "POLICE" on a T-shirt.
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    Wouldn't the "P" and the "O" make excellent 'center of mass' targets?

    I'm no criminal, there is no criminal activity going on in our home, so don't be knocking on our door at 10 P.M. expecting a mild response. Too many windows and lights for me NOT to know it's really the police at the door.
    I'm always armed at home, and someone kicking in the door is asking for a defensive response from THIS home owner.
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    Here is an interesting case from Florida Federal No-Knock warrants can be executed in Florida but it seems that Florida will not issue one.

    http://www.textfiles.com/drugs/noknock.txt

    II. NO-KNOCK WARRANTS

    No-knock warrants are disfavored under the law and limited largely
    to those states that have enacted statutory provisions authorizing
    their issuance. In fact, "[t]he prevailing ... view is that a
    magistrate may not issue a so-called no-knock search warrant in the
    absence of such a statutory provision." 2 Wayne R. LaFave, Search
    and Seizure s 4.8(g) (1987). No statutory authority exists under
    Florida law for issuing a no-knock search warrant.

    The reasoning against no-knock warrants is convincing.
    Circumstances that may seemingly justify issuance of a no-knock
    search warrant may change drastically after issuance but before
    execution of the warrant. Conditions must be assessed at the scene
    at the time of entry: While a search warrant must necessarily rest
    upon previously obtained information.... Facts existing at the
    time of obtaining a warrant may no longer exist at the time of
    entry. Such an emergency, therefore, can be judged only in light
    of circumstances of which the officer is aware at the latter
    moment. *3 Parsley v. Superior Court, 513 P.2d 611, 614 (Cal.1973).
    As a matter of policy, no-knock warrants are disfavored because of
    their staggering potential for violence to both occupants and
    police, as Congress recently discovered [FN4] and as is apparent
    in the present case. We conclude that in the absence of express
    statutory authorization no-knock search warrants are without legal
    effect in Florida.
    Here is a Florida case from 2003 from the Florida Supreme Court
    http://www.floridasupremecourt.org/c...4_JurisIni.pdf


    The district court reversed the trial court's denial .T he
    district court specifically rejected the State's argument that any
    violation of the statute was harmless because Ealey's residence was
    unoccupied, therefore, none of the purposes served by the Knock and
    Announce statute were facilitated by requiring the police to comply.
    However, the district court noted that the officers didn't know
    whether Ealey's residence was occupied or unoccupied at the time they
    decided to enter. Moreover, the basis for the Knock and Announce
    requirement was to: 1) decrease the potential for violent confronta7
    tion between the resident and the police, 2) the protection of
    privacy; and 3) to prevent the needless destruction of property. The
    district court stated that at the very least, reason #3) was applicable,
    because if the officers had followed the statutory requirements,
    Ealey would have had the opportunity to permit their entry without
    the destruction of his door.
    From Florida Law :)
    http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&Search_String=& URL=Ch0933/SEC09.HTM&Title=->2008->Ch0933->Section%2009#0933.09

    FS 933.09 Officer may break open door, etc., to execute warrant.--The officer may break open any outer door, inner door or window of a house, or any part of a house or anything therein, to execute the warrant, if after due notice of the officer's authority and purpose he or she is refused admittance to said house or access to anything therein.
    So sayeth the people fo florida, so sayeth our legislature :)

    I'm with retsupt99, Castle Doctrine Rules if you break into my house at night without identifying yourself Mr.45 WILL say hi.
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    Senior Member Array dunndw's Avatar
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    I'm not expecting the cops to show up in the middle of the night, nor and I a crook. There is ZERO reason for LEOs to know I exist.
    If my door gets kicked in the middle of the night...I will answer with 5.56 hollow points and figure out who it is/was once my ears stop ringing
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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TucAzRider View Post
    Police never come in to someones house with a mask on,. . Mask on -------> Shoot,.... No Mask ----- > ??? What do you do?? That is a tough call,. Then again, Police would always knock and tell you it is the police,. Right???
    I wouldn't be surprised to see the DEA or even the BATFE wear masks on some of their raids.

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