Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's - Page 2

Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's

This is a discussion on Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by ArmyCop I don't know of ANYONE who would consider "Denny's" a risky place to visit. They're everywhere, they're a known quantity to ...

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Thread: Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    I don't know of ANYONE who would consider "Denny's" a risky place to visit.
    They're everywhere, they're a known quantity to robbers, the busy ones seat hundreds upon hundreds of diners each day, and they're open 24x7. That makes them little different from any other stop-n-rob, but with more cash likely to be on hand.

    A simple search of " +denny's +restaurant +robbery " finds plenty. In the past couple of years, there have been several in my area, here, robbed. A quick glance shows at least a dozen in the past year. Wouldn't surprise me if one could find a hundred in the past decade, if one searched long enough.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array tinkerinWstuff's Avatar
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    One more reason and case in point for a backup mag.
    "Run for your life from the man who tells you that money is evil. That sentence is the leper's bell of an approaching looter. So long as men live together on earth and need means to deal with one another-their only substitute, if they abandon money, is the muzzle of a gun."

    Who is John Galt?

  3. #18
    Member Array V65magnafan's Avatar
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    My Long Island uncle told me about "The Rape Diner".

    This from the ultra-liberal New York Times:

    "The rampage started the Friday of Memorial Day weekend in 1982, when five young men from Brooklyn stole a Cadillac from a garage there. It continued in Plainview, where they invaded Thomas and Janet Reilly's home, raping, beating, robbing and urinating on guests at a party held by the couple's 20-year-old son.

    And it culminated early the next morning, when the men burst into the Seacrest wielding handguns and a shotgun, then robbed and terrorized customers, demanding that they strip and ordering some to have sex with each other. At least one waitress was raped. Two young men were shot. Mr. Bouloukos and several others were pistol-whipped, and all 80 or so people inside were held hostage for more than an hour.

    On Friday, one of the gunmen is scheduled to be released from prison. The man, Robert Williams, now 39, pleaded guilty to more than 100 felonies, but by law -- a law that was later changed, partly in response to the rampage -- the maximum prison sentence he could receive was 15 to 30 years. Mr. Williams, who has been repeatedly denied parole, is being released now because he has served two-thirds of the 30 years, complied with prison rules and participated in treatment programs. His four accomplices are still in prison."
    Prison Release Recalls Horror In L.I. Diner; 1982 Rampage Led to Law Raising Felony Penalties - The New York Times

    Of course, The NYT would never, never think of CCW as a way to prevent this kind of madness.

    I agree with carry ok. We're going to see more of this stuff.


    There have certainly been more terrible episodes on Long Island. But there is something about the Seacrest Diner case that shook Long Island to its comfortable suburban core, rattling people's sense of safety and rippling through the justice system with lasting effects.
    NRA 2AF IDPA
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    And let's not forget Luby's Café and the massacre by the feral animal that got loose that day.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Wonder if this changes anybody's response in the thread on how much ammo do you carry?

    200 rounds seems about right in this scenario.
    He is no fool who gives what he cannot keep to gain what he cannot lose. - Jim Elliott

    The world is a dangerous place to live; not because of the people who are evil, but because of the people who don't do anything about it.
    Albert Einstein

  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array sniper58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    They're everywhere, they're a known quantity to robbers, the busy ones seat hundreds upon hundreds of diners each day, and they're open 24x7. That makes them little different from any other stop-n-rob, but with more cash likely to be on hand.

    A simple search of " +denny's +restaurant +robbery " finds plenty. In the past couple of years, there have been several in my area, here, robbed. A quick glance shows at least a dozen in the past year. Wouldn't surprise me if one could find a hundred in the past decade, if one searched long enough.
    We hear (frequently) about the dangers of Wal-Mart's parking lots. Sounds like Denny's is a close second. Denny's must do a better job of spinning/burying the stories (the Disney phenomenon).
    Tim
    BE PREPARED - Noah didn't build the Ark when it was raining!
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  7. #22
    Member Array rhrocket22's Avatar
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    Just another story to convince my wife why you must CC/OC all the time!!!!

  8. #23
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    they sound pretty inept to me, if they went in shooting and left their getaway car in the same trailer park.....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  9. #24
    Member Array oldogy's Avatar
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    OK, lets look at this scenario a bit. "Several armed gunmen" could be hard to defend against by a single armed GG. If they come in guns flashing just what are you going to do? Just what chance do you have? Duck, cover and defend from any makeshift fortification you can find? Very interesting
    oldogy
    Last edited by oldogy; June 21st, 2009 at 12:11 PM. Reason: Changed shoot to defend.
    Government is out of control
    "If gun laws in fact worked, the sponsors of this type of legislation should have no difficulty drawing upon long lists of examples of crime rates reduced by such legislation. That they cannot do so after a century and a half of trying -- " Sen Orrin G. Hatch

  10. #25
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by oldogy View Post
    OK, lets look at this scenario a bit. "Several armed gunmen" could be hard to defend against by a single armed GG. If they come in guns flashing just what are you going to do? Just what chance do you have? Duck, cover and shoot from any makeshift fortification you can find? Very interesting
    oldogy
    If you shoot a couple of them to the ground, will the others engage or flee?

    Look how well submissive compliance worked.

    Or maybe you should wait until you are looking up their muzzle

  11. #26
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Trying to take on the BG's in this situation can be impossible for us here to "armchair quarterback". You have to consider so many factors in addition to the fact that you are out numbered four to one. That alone gives me pause. I think it would be certain that as soon as you fire your first shot they will return fire. There is no reason not to assume this. What about the people around you? Are you willing to put them at risk. Do you want to start a gunfight in a crowded Denny's? I'm not saying that if one of us had been there we should've done nothing, just that there are so many factors to consider we can't even begin to second guess what we would have done if we were there.

    The whole thing is terrible and since it happened here in ABQ it really hits home. Just reinforces my decision to get my CCW license. We have got to get the restaurant law passed so we can carry in Chillies, Applebees, etc.
    Jeff
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  12. #27
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by johnsonabq View Post
    Do you want to start a gunfight in a crowded Denny's?
    It's the criminals who start it, just so we're speaking of the same thing.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  13. #28
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    It's the criminals who start it, just so we're speaking of the same thing.
    Really? You think it would have been wise to just start firing from your booth as soon as you heard that shot from the back of the Denny's? It "takes two to tango". It's not a gunfight until there are two sides shooting at each other.

    We are not the police. It's sad that the female cook was killed when she ran toward the back after being told to get down. That was not a gunfight. How many more do you think would have been shot if a gunfight really starts. That's what I'm talking about. You fire one shot and those bad guys are going to shift in "Spray and Pray" mode. Then things REALLY get ugly.

    This is real world stuff here. You just can't go "Dirty Harry" and save the day.
    Jeff
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  14. #29
    Member Array brianko's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    Or maybe you should wait until you are looking up their muzzle
    That might be the best of all worlds in this situation. I don't carry to protect society -- that's a cop's job. I carry to protect myself and my family. It's difficult for me (or anyone) to say how they would react in a similar situation. But I'm fairly certain that opening fire on multiple gunmen would not be at the top of my list of things to do.

    What would be at the top of my list would be to get myself and family underneath the table and wait out the gunman from a sheltered position. If that means waiting to shoot until I was "looking up their muzzle," so be it. If you've read the stories about the Killeen Luby's massacre, you'll find that the gunman walked around and shot people as they were hunkered down underneath tables. One single armed patron could have seized the day in that scenario.
    A nation of sheep begets a government of wolves. --E. Murrow
    Pro-2A, anti-NRA, GOA life member, JPFO

  15. #30
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    There are not enough details here to really determine if a single armed person could have made a difference. I would follow the duck and cover routine until there was a direct threat to me or a loved one. However if it looked like things were going south and if 1 of the gunman was separated from the group while the others are out of line of sight I may take the opportunity to even the odds a little. It all depends on if these guys seemed like they were going to start killing indiscriminately and if I had a good choke point to work with.

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