Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's

This is a discussion on Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by TravisABQ I'm a big fan of minding own business. But if you are armed, and trapped like a rat in a can ...

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Thread: Multiple Armed Gunmen Open Fire at New Mexico Denny's

  1. #46
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    I'm a big fan of minding own business.

    But if you are armed, and trapped like a rat in a can with 4 bad guys shooting guns in the ceiling to get people's attention, you can cower and hope that they pass you by.... but when they demand wallets and find your CCW license, or they search you, and find your weapon, how do you calculate your odds then?

    Off-duty cops have been caught in such situations before, and been promptly executed.

    This isn't a matter of going, "Dirty Harry", and you deserve a thwack for using a such Brady bunch denigration..... it is a matter of taking initiative and doing what the bad guys are NOT expecting.

    They went there for money, yes, but I think they were there more for the thrill...... but they had NO idea they might take return fire.

    You do NOT get the luxury of choosing how many people you are going to have a battle with.

    What you DO control, is reacting quickly with determination and ruthlessness. In any attack, your best chance to reverse the advantage is acting as early as possible. Your chances get worse with every second.

    Or you can sit there with your gun concealed in the small of your back, and your face in your oatmeal. Especially when you do nothing and they kill a couple people, you will treasure this moment for the rest of your life.

    You want a guarantee? We never get those.
    Allow me to repeat myself... "I'm not saying that if one of us had been there we should've done nothing, just that there are so many factors to consider we can't even begin to second guess what we would have done if we were there."

    And,

    "All I'm saying is if you find yourself in something like this you need a cool head, think clear, and don't do something to make matters worse." You do what you want. This is what I'll do.

    "And that's all I have to say on that."
    Jeff
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  3. #47
    Member Array gogriz91's Avatar
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    I was raised in NM and while Richardson may have his CCL, you have to have completed a class from an NRA certified instructor in order to be able to get a CCL in NM, something that surprises and disappoints me at the same time. I lived in a very rural community where most folks were their own law enforcement and find it odd that now that I live in GA where law enforcement is everywhere by comparison and it's really easy to get a GFL. Maybe the myths of the Lincoln County cattle wars and Billy the Kid scared the Californicators like Richardson who relocated to Santa Fe? Maybe this tragedy will enable the rest of New Mexico to make some progress towards fewer restrictions on CCing.
    Desperate people do desperate things in desperate situations.

    Heavily medicated for your protection.

    Kimber Tactical Custom II, SIS Pro

  4. #48
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Do what you think is best, Johnson.

    I have heard that cant of "making the situation worse", by every gun banner in response to the Virginia Tech massacre, and the Luby's Massacre.

    THOSE events are what form my mindset.

  5. #49
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    The assailants are thought to be Central American, probably illegal, immigrants. Like we don't have enough home grown criminals! The guns that they used are most likely stolen. The idiotic press called one weapon used an M 16. This assault was a wake up call to always carry, no matter how trivial the outing may be. Unfortunately, the gun ban crowd will use this crime to call for stricter gun control.

  6. #50
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    Do what you think is best, Johnson.

    I have heard that cant of "making the situation worse", by every gun banner in response to the Virginia Tech massacre, and the Luby's Massacre.

    THOSE events are what form my mindset.
    Sigh... Those were single assailants. Big difference.

    BTW... I truly resent being lumped with gun grabbers just because you don't agree with me. You don't know me and are in no position to make that judgment.
    Jeff
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  7. #51
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Whether it is one bad guy or FIVE, you NEVER have any idea of how it is going to turn out.

    You may think that fighting back is suicidal reckless bravado.....

    I'm just saying that I would figure that my own chances of suviving by submission are worse than that of resisting.

  8. #52
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    No Johnson, I do not know you.

    All I know is that you have used their cant to make your point.

    I have NOT made an attack on you, but you HAVE referred to someone who would resist as "Dirty Harry"

    WHATEVER you do in that situation, is no guarantee that it is the "best" option.

  9. #53
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    I did not advocate not fighting back. And I do not think anyone who does is a "Dirty Harry" Read my post #26 and #38. Come'on, if I thought that why would I have gone through all this time, money, and training so I could conceal carry. I was responding to what I considered was a comment advocating taking these guys on single handedly out of hand. If I'm sitting there with my little PM9 and one reload and four well armed men come in, I'm thinking twice about taking them on. I'm not saying I wouldn't, just that I'd have to think real hard about how/if I should.
    Jeff
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  10. #54
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Think hard. Think once, think twice, think again.....

    But think FAST, because time is not on YOUR side.

    We've all seen enough of these scenarios which go SO bad with all the victims totally compliant.

    Too many for me to think that is the best strategy.

  11. #55
    Member Array johnsonabq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TravisABQ View Post
    Think hard. Think once, think twice, think again.....

    But think FAST, because time is not on YOUR side.

    We've all seen enough of these scenarios which go SO bad with all the victims totally compliant.

    Too many for me to think that is the best strategy.
    God Bless You.
    Jeff
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    (my favorite but hard to hide)

  12. #56
    VIP Member Array Tom G's Avatar
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    This is one of the worst holdups I've heard about. This could have turned into a blood bath. The courts need to put and enforce a twenty year sentence on any crime where a gun is used. This needs to be fully served. this needs to be a manatory sentence with no time off.

  13. #57
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    I have two thoughts on that:

    1) The place could have two dozen armed defenders, each thinking he is the only one carrying, so he does not start shooting.

    2) The criminals are going to try to take control of the situation and make sure no one can resist. Once they have control, they can do whatever they want, and no one can do anything to keep them from it.

    Here is a link to a story in which the bad guys claim they "only want food", but turn around and kill all the men, children, and ugly women, and take every thing once the defenders drop their guard:

    http://www.giltweasel.com/stuff/LightsOut-Current.pdf

    That part of the story has a horrid plausibility.

  14. #58
    Member Array TravisABQ's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Tom G View Post
    This is one of the worst holdups I've heard about. This could have turned into a blood bath. The courts need to put and enforce a twenty year sentence on any crime where a gun is used. This needs to be fully served.
    Why in the world is menacing 100 people, holding them at gunpoint, firing guns into the ceiling, and MURDERING a teen aged girl not ADEQUATE to prosecute the perpetrators, that we start talking about making it extra double secret probation illegal?!

    There are already about 400 separate charges each of these criminals can be charged with, BESIDES the felony murder.
    (since there seems to have been 100 individual victims)

    And this is without the typical "overcharging" that DAs often do.

    Everyone of them deserves life or a couple hundred years....

    The threat of an extra 20 is meaningless.

  15. #59
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    Incredibly ugly scenario: multiple long-gun toting thugs in a crowded environment. Demonstrated willingness to act with total recklessness. Complete disregard for anyone's life. Any way you slice it, the tactical position of the legally concealed handgun holder is very, very bad.

    PC

  16. #60
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    Execution has its place. Looks like NM abolished its death penalty this year. Amazing, since those who display utter, wanton disregard for human life are delivering death as penalty to others for merely living. Disgusting.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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