Home Owner goes to jail for shooting intruder

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Thread: Home Owner goes to jail for shooting intruder

  1. #1
    New Member Array Rugerdoug's Avatar
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    Home Owner goes to jail for shooting intruder

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  3. #2
    Senior Member Array Slim_45's Avatar
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    Sounds to me like he shot him "intruder" while he "intruder" was asleep on the couch I would be pissed too but heck he's sleeping, just call the cops silently & watch him closely until they get there
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    Member Array Soular's Avatar
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    So the guy was "summoned home from a bar" by his wife because an intruder was asleep on their sofa?

    Hello?

    911 What's your Emergency?

    There appears to be an intruder in my home, please send help!

    Officers will arrive on scene before your husband from the bar, thanks for calling....


    I'm all about and completely understand "When seconds count, help is only minutes away", but if my wife called me, you better bet I'd be conferencing in 911 while I was on my way home.
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  5. #4
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    NO! The homeowner did not go to jail for shooting an intruder. You make it sound like the law in unjust and that he was found guilty for doing the right thing. He went to jail for criminally negligent homicide...for apparently killing a stranger (intruder) found sleeping in the house. Apparently, it is illegal to shoot non-threatening unconscious intruders there.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  6. #5
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    The article...

    Man who killed sleeping intruder gets prison

    Story Published: Jun 29, 2009 at 5:09 PM PDT
    Story Updated: Jun 29, 2009 at 6:50 PM PDT
    By Dan Bain KPIC News and News Services
    Video
    ROSEBURG, Ore. -- A Sutherlin man who shot and killed a man his wife found asleep on their couch last year will serve 19 months in prison as part of a plea deal.

    Keith Cramer, 35, pleaded no contest to criminally negligent homicide with a firearm. In exchange, the district attorney dropped a charge of second-degree manslaughter.

    The charges stem from a shooting inside Cramer's home in Sutherlin, where Cramer's wife discovered a man sleeping on their couch last June.

    She told police she went to a local tavern to get her husband, and the intruder, Michael Shane Smith, 35, of Alaska, was shot in the chest.

    Cramer will be sentenced by Judge Ronald Poole in August. The two sides have agreed on a sentence of 19 months in exchange for the plea.

    "He has tremendous sorrow for the death of Mr. Smith, and for his wife and family," defense attorney Jim Arneson said of Cramer, "and wishes to the bottom of his soul this had never happened."

    Sentencing is set for Aug. 7.

    'He beat me up, so I shot him. This is my house. He's an intruder'

    According to police accounts, Cramer's wife found the stranger passed out on the family's couch and summoned her husband from a bar.

    Cramer said that what happened next was self-defense. According to a search warrant affidavit, he told officers: "He beat me up, so I shot him. This is my house. He's an intruder."

    Two Sutherlin police officers entered the home after the June 19 shooting and found Smith's body. It was "lying on his side with his feet propped up on the couch, facing the center of the living room," the affidavit states.

    Investigators said Smith appeared to have been shot in the chest with a high-powered hunting rifle.

    Smith lived in Alaska but had been in Sutherlin for several weeks mourning the May 29 death of his mother. A friend said Smith had been drinking heavily on the night of the shooting and might have become disoriented while walking back to his stepfather's house.

    Smith had been at the same bar as Cramer, but it does not appear the men knew each other.

    ================================================== ==

    It would be difficult to say that shooting a sleeping man had anything to do with self-defense. OMO
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    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I hope the people that type things like, "Any intruder in my house will be shot," will now give pause and reflect on this case.

    Just because someone is in your house doesn't mean you can shoot them. You still need AOJ.

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    Sounds like the jury saw the truth in this situation!
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    Cramer said that what happened next was self-defense. According to a search warrant affidavit, he told officers: "He beat me up, so I shot him. This is my house. He's an intruder."

    Two Sutherlin police officers entered the home after the June 19 shooting and found Smith's body. It was "lying on his side with his feet propped up on the couch, facing the center of the living room," the affidavit states.
    How does a man "beat you up" while laying on his side on the couch asleep? Sounds more like a case of a pissed off home owner, because a stranger was in his house. Or maybe he was mad at his wife for pulling him out of the bar. Either way there doesn't appear to be any justification for the use of deadly force.

  10. #9
    VIP Member Array David in FL's Avatar
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    Seems to me that he's awfully lucky that he's not going to prison for a heckuva lot longer than that!
    "Far better it is to dare mighty things, to win glorious triumphs, even though checkered by failure than to rank with those poor spirits who neither enjoy much nor suffer much, because they live in a grey twilight that knows not victory nor defeat."

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    This is really a weird story. Since both man and wife were out side the home while the "intruder" was asleep inside, could they not have waited for the police?

    Still, you forfeit something when you wind up in someone else's home. He didn't belong there, and that by itself is a big time threat to the inhabitants/homeowners. What if he wasn't drunk? What if he awoke knife in hand?

    Still, once outside, going back in was not wise. Whether that should be illegal or count against a self-defense defense, or castle defense, I'm not so sure.

    Don't like the outcome here at all.

  12. #11
    Member Array cz2075bd's Avatar
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    These types of intruders happen. A friend of mine lived next door to a house that became a multi-family dwelling of illegal immigrants. A lot of day laborers lived in it, whole families to a bedroom. The houses in the neighborhood were all 100% identical shoebox brick ramblers with a "separate entrance" in the back--an outdoor stairwell to the basement. One night one of the day laborers came home drunk, after being out drinking heavily for several hours. In his drunkenness he went to the wrong house... understandable as they all look the same. My friend stupidly had not locked the basement door and the alien entered. My friend heard the noise, when down to investigate, saw the man and ordered him to leave. Luckily the man left peacefully. My friend is now in the market to buy a gun. I'm encouraging him to get proper training, especially in the shoot/don't shoot area. Needless to say, he now locks the doors and windows religiously.

  13. #12
    Senior Member Array TucAzRider's Avatar
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    I cannot believe he only got 19months for that.... Better be careful, they will be outlawing hunting rifles now,.

  14. #13
    Ex Member Array GreenHorn's Avatar
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    Some one was itching to shoot a person.
    No reason to go back into house at all.

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    Compare two situations

    Quote Originally Posted by GreenHorn View Post
    Some one was itching to shoot a person.
    No reason to go back into house at all.
    We have had a few posts here where folks have come home to a robbery in progress, or to what they thought was a robbery in progress, and entered the home "to clear" it.

    While doing so isn't smart, I don't recall anyone saying that the person going in is looking for an excuse to shoot someone.

    These situations are inherently murky and hindsight makes things more clear than at the moment--as does the alcohol that was in play for both the intruder and the shooter.

  16. #15
    Member Array Eirerogue's Avatar
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    I think somewhere in that story is a modicum of truth, but both the story and the outcome smell. And he pled out why?

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