Own, conceal, drink at 18?

This is a discussion on Own, conceal, drink at 18? within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Roanoke Times; Roanoke, VA Guns as the ultimate bogyman in another issue: A loopy drinking debate - Roanoke.com A loopy drinking debate Dick Howard Howard ...

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Thread: Own, conceal, drink at 18?

  1. #1
    VIP Member
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    Own, conceal, drink at 18?

    Roanoke Times; Roanoke, VA

    Guns as the ultimate bogyman in another issue:

    A loopy drinking debate - Roanoke.com

    A loopy drinking debate

    Dick Howard

    Howard is a retired health care professional. He lives in Salem.


    Several days ago, I was ranting to my wife about the two sweepingly superficial and patently false arguments that proponents of lowering the legal age of drinking trot out.

    Right on cue, I can always count on hearing: "If they're old enough to fight for their country, they oughta be old enough to drink." Followed by: "If they're old enough to handle the responsibility of voting, they oughta be old enough to drink."

    Dr. John McCardell may have a Ph.D., but he must have flunked botany because he does not know apples from oranges ("Q&A with John McCardell," June 28 news story). Let me hop onto his tortuous train of mixed-fruit logic and ride it a little further to see where the next stop could be.

    He wants us to believe that since we have decided 18-year-olds are competent to fight for their country (that's the apples) and to vote (more apples), then, by his loopy extension, these same 18-year-olds should be entrusted with the legal right to purchase and drink any amount of alcohol (that's the oranges) they darn well want.

    Whoa!

    That's a great big leap of weak logic there, but for the sake of discussion, let's let this train careen on down the tracks.

    In Virginia, no one under the age of 21 can legally purchase a handgun or obtain a permit to carry a concealed handgun. So couldn't McCardell's same logic be applied to the right to purchase and carry concealed handguns?

    You know, it would be the "they're old enough to fight for their country and old enough to vote, so why aren't they old enough to legally purchase and carry a concealed handgun?" argument. Makes sense to me as long as I ride that crazy train.

    But we have made the very wise legal decision that 18year-olds are not competent to own and carry concealed handguns, and I think we have appropriately applied the same yardstick to measuring the competency of 18-year-olds for purchasing and drinking alcohol. It should be noted that when abused, one is as deadly as the other.

    I haven't heard of anyone calling out for the laws to be changed to allow people under 21 years old to own and carry concealed handguns, but if there are such persons, they should hop a little ride on McCardell's lower-the-drinking-age train of logic.
    FWIIW -- I all for changing the law to allow people under 21 years old to own and carry concealed handguns, as well as agree with Mr. McCardell's lower-the-drinking-age train.
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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array pcon's Avatar
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    Ditto! By all means, have a beer when you can. Lord knows most are already doing it illegally anyways.
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  4. #3
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    If one is old enough to die for their country, they are old enough to take a legal drink and to pay the consequences if they break the law.
    If the public are bound to yield obedience to laws to which they cannot give their approbation, they are slaves to those who make such laws and enforce them.--Samuel Adams as Candidus, Boston Gazette 20 Jan. 1772

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    VIP Member Array Kerbouchard's Avatar
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    The Navy trusted me to run their nuclear reactors in a war zone when I was 19...
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  6. #5
    VIP Member Array Blackeagle's Avatar
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    I think 18 year olds should be able to CCW, and be able to drink, though preferably not at the same time.

    I would point out that in most states, 18 year olds can own firearms. They can purchase long guns the same as anybody else. Under federal law 18 year olds can only buy handguns in private party sales, but they can legally own them.

  7. #6
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    Well, we've become a society of perpetual adolescents; why should we expect anybody actually to understand anymore what it means to be an adult?

    It really should be simple. Decide at what age people reach legal majority. If you are under that age you are a dependent minor; if you are above that age, you are an adult. None of this in-between, adult enough for this not for that, indecisive crap.

    Dying in uniform and casting a vote are the two most adult things that anybody in this society can do. Putting other restrictions on people trusted to do both of those is just incessant nannyism.
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  8. #7
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    In theory I agree, practice is another matter.

    Don't forget, in the military it's the youngsters 17 - 19 that are on their "first hitch". It's not until you have re-upped a time or two that you start to get some rank and the expirience that comes with that. Remember, in the military you have Sgt's, LT's, Cpt's and what not over you.

    The lowly PFC, Gomer Pyle, does not make the decisions, he just follows orders without question from the Cpl and the Sgt. It's the older dogs that seem to ask the questions, and give the orders. There must be a reason for that.

    Also, look at the statistics of military personnel that get in trouble. I think it's much like college students. Away from home for the first time and given freedom to do things that you never got to do before. In college, by the time you get to be a senior, you most likely are getting in trouble with the local constabulary on a less frequent basis than when you were a freshman.

    Some people have the maturity at twelve years of age to carry a weapon. Some, at fifty-five don't have the maturity to walk across the street without adult supervision. I think though that a compromise has to be reached in regards to what age to allow certain things and while other countries have their drinking age at 18 y/o I think they also have a different culture that is more accepting of this.

    Personally I would favor, from a practical standpoint, lowering the drinking age to 18 and raising the age to buy and purchase any firearms to 25.

    Biker

  9. #8
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    Maturity levels vary at many ages...young and old.
    In my humble opinion, if you are old enough to die for your country, than you are old enough to become involved in the other privileges.
    However, if you're old enough to do those things, drink, carry, etc., then you WILL be held fully accountable for bad judgements.
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    Member Array imatt's Avatar
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    If you can die for your country in battle, you can drink.

  11. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by Blackeagle View Post
    I would point out that in most states, 18 year olds can own firearms. They can purchase long guns the same as anybody else. Under federal law 18 year olds can only buy handguns in private party sales, but they can legally own them.


    I should have said handguns.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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    Member Array sawyerrt10's Avatar
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    Its already been said, but I will add a cavet to it. If the person is old enough to die for our coutry in battle and chooses to serve in the Armed Forces, then they should be allowed these privileges, everyone else can wait till they are 21. Just my .02
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    I wish 18 year olds didn't have to die for our country and I wish 18 year olds didn't drink. They do both now. As some have posted maturity comes at all levels of age. Some 18 year olds are very mature and could handle a ccl but i'd prefer to give them the ownership, let them practice shooting, get some experience behind them and mature a little more. You have to think, who do 18 year olds hang out with?? Mostly other teenagers, that is a problem that might present danger to the one carrying. I had two teenagers. both of which could have cc with maturity, however, some of their friends would have been totally playful and dangerous if they could have somehow gotten their hands on a gun. Let's let them grow up and enjoy being kids for a while longer.
    2 Chronicles 7:14 If my people, which are called by my name, shall humble themselves, and pray, and seek my face, and turn from their wicked ways; then will I hear from heaven, and will forgive their sin, and will heal their land.

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array mi2az's Avatar
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    If your considered an adult at 18, then all rights, privilages and consequences should follow suite.
    "When the people fear the government you have tyranny...when the government fears the people you have liberty."

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  15. #14
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    I think that Biker made some good points.
    It sounds good in theory, the practice is another matter. IMO, 18 is too young to carry for most.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    I don't believe using the fact that you can defend your country with a firearm at 18 should have anything to do with this argument. The military takes 18 year olds because they normally have the best physycal assets. They are also more easily trained to kill someone without asking all those nasty moral question that are learned with age.

    Now if you believe that 18 year olds have the proper judgment and temperment I see no problem.

    Michael

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