7 NC men charged with plotting 'violent jihad' - Page 2

7 NC men charged with plotting 'violent jihad'

This is a discussion on 7 NC men charged with plotting 'violent jihad' within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Moga But there has to be EVIDENCE and there doesn't seem to be any. What makes you think you would be privy ...

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Thread: 7 NC men charged with plotting 'violent jihad'

  1. #16
    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    But there has to be EVIDENCE and there doesn't seem to be any.
    What makes you think you would be privy to any evidence at this point? Evidence, prior to a trial, is certainly not something that is released to the media and general public. While I am not saying whether solid evidence exists or not (I have no way of knowing, at this point, just like the rest of the general public), if the government has it, they are not going to be broadcasting it on the news. It will be provided to the defense team via discovery; it will be displayed/discussed/debated in court, once the trial starts; and the, depending on the media exposure the trail gets (and this one should get plenty), it will start filtering out.
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  2. #17
    Senior Member Array Rustynuts's Avatar
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    Screw'em. Witch hunt is too good for these idiots. They can go "Kafir" themselves!

  3. #18
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    What makes you think you would be privy to any evidence at this point? Evidence, prior to a trial, is certainly not something that is released to the media and general public. While I am not saying whether solid evidence exists or not (I have no way of knowing, at this point, just like the rest of the general public), if the government has it, they are not going to be broadcasting it on the news. It will be provided to the defense team via discovery; it will be displayed/discussed/debated in court, once the trial starts; and the, depending on the media exposure the trail gets (and this one should get plenty), it will start filtering out.
    Gonzo
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  4. #19
    Senior Member Array Moga's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TheGreatGonzo View Post
    What makes you think you would be privy to any evidence at this point? Evidence, prior to a trial, is certainly not something that is released to the media and general public.
    Perhaps asking for "evidence" was not the appropriate method to express the conspicuous lack of substance in the investigation. A brief summary of what they did that was actually criminal will do. Any and every criminal case reported by the media would be jeopardized by the revelation of specific facts before a trial yet there is usually enough detail to understand the crimes for which the accused have been arrested. When does the press ever go into minutiae of detail?

    Some examples of the federal cops revealing the infractions without jeoparding the case could be:

    1) Audio and video surveillance of the suspects planning out specific attacks with x, y, and z in BFE.

    OR

    2) Electronic records of damning documentation found on personal computers owned by the suspects that reveal the extent of their plans, preparation, and the location of forbidden weaponry, such as NBC or other non small-arms weaponry

    OR

    3) The revelation that the suspects have been caught in a sting, similar to the circumstances that resulted in the arrest of the four in NYC a month or two back, attempting to recruit for their cause...

    You get the idea.

    The same generalities that describe the allegations for which they've been arrested for seemingly legal acts could be used to help the public understand better why this man and his sons have been taken into custody. Because as far as I can see it, the justifications for the arrest do not constitute criminal offenses.
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  5. #20
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    Re: questions about what crime was committed. Obviously I don't know, but the story says that they plotted. I think the correct legal term for plotting is conspiracy.

    If several folks conspire together and one does any overt act toward the furtherance of the conspiracy, then they will all be guilty of conspiring to commit whatever it was they conspired together to do, whether or not the actual crime took place. E.g., if 3 BGs conspire to rob a bank and one of them goes and steals a gun in furtherance of the conspiracy, they will all be guilty of conspiring to commit robbery of a bank.

    In this story about Boyd et al. it sounds as if they might have conspired together to travel abroad to engage in acts of terrorism, and that the trip to Israel was an overt act in furtherance of the conspiracy.

    I do agree with some here that without more being made public, it is not possible to know what they are actually charged with, but conspiracy to commit some sort of crime might be an appropriate charge. You can be guilty of conspiracy even if the ultimate act of criminality never happens.

  6. #21
    Ex Member Array PNUT's Avatar
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    You are almost better off just doing the crime than to be conspiring...if I'm not mistaken (and I may well be, IANAL, but SD plays one on the internets) in some cases conspiracy is punished more harshly than the doing.

    Just kidding SD.

    I'll edit that out (after you see it)

  7. #22
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    Perhaps asking for "evidence" was not the appropriate method to express the conspicuous lack of substance in the investigation.
    What leads you to believe the investigation wasn't complete and thorough?

    A brief summary of what they did that was actually criminal will do.
    That was certainly provided as well as the charges against the criminal enemy. Why do want to support the enemy that would just as soon slice off your head than eat a bowl of gumbo?

    Any and every criminal case reported by the media would be jeopardized by the revelation of specific facts before a trial yet there is usually enough detail to understand the crimes for which the accused have been arrested.
    I have no problem understanding the charges. Exactly what do you not understand?

    Some examples of the federal cops revealing the infractions without jeoparding the case could be:

    1) Audio and video surveillance of the suspects planning out specific attacks with x, y, and z in BFE.

    OR

    2) Electronic records of damning documentation found on personal computers owned by the suspects that reveal the extent of their plans, preparation, and the location of forbidden weaponry, such as NBC or other non small-arms weaponry

    OR

    3) The revelation that the suspects have been caught in a sting, similar to the circumstances that resulted in the arrest of the four in NYC a month or two back, attempting to recruit for their cause...

    You get the idea.
    I get the idea that you think heinous crimes and war crimes against the American people should be reviewed in the court of public opinion rather than a military tribunal or court of law.

    Why? Are you frightened that 'the man' will come after you next and doggedly violate your idea of your 'rights?'

    The same generalities that describe the allegations for which they've been arrested for seemingly legal acts could be used to help the public understand better why this man and his sons have been taken into custody. Because as far as I can see it, the justifications for the arrest do not constitute criminal offenses.
    Seemingly legal acts?

    Perhaps you should await the transcripts of the trial before you opine on the charges. Many people have spent significant effort to protect YOU. If you are truly concerned with the future of jihadists, perhaps you could volunteer for the defense. I'm sure they will need all the help they can to prevent these enemy scumbags from being imprisoned for the rest of their lives.

    Thank God for the Patriot Act and God Bless President Bush. Another successful battle in the War on Terror.

  8. #23
    Member Array DblTap's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Moga View Post
    I mean, if they've done something and there is evidence of wrong doing then lock those blokes up and throw away the key. But there has to be EVIDENCE and there doesn't seem to be any. In fact, this seems more like a witch hunt/preemptive arrest to prevent them from possibly doing anything. <<<That's not good enough for US citizens and is a way, way slippery slope along with being completely unconstitutional.
    At what point was the FBI supposed to check in with you first?

    Some peoples sense of entitlement to be informed amazes me.
    I'd hope that the FBI does NOT reveal their method of gathering information.
    This was going on in my back yard. The family lives 10 minutes from my house. The only thing I want to know is that town is safe and they have apprehended ALL of the suspects. When it's appropriate to release more information, I'm sure it will happen.
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  9. #24
    Senior Member Array LeCalsey's Avatar
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    I am glad as I can be that they nabbed these jackholes before they could finish what they have OBVIOUSLY started. The DC sniper was a perfect example of what can happen when the Feds and LE miss opportunities to take these guy off of the streets.

    I have said it before and I will say it again.....the face of jihad is changing in America. The next big event will come from US citizens. The new jihadist will look like a "Boyd" and be able to blend into the background without anyone knowing. Timothy McVeigh (Although not a jihadist?) was able to commit his acts of terrorism without raising much suspicion at all beforehand. All because we are pre-occupied looking at the brown-eyed middle eastern types one comes to suspect. Islamofacists are all to aware of this by now.

    Get ready for more to come
    Last edited by LeCalsey; July 31st, 2009 at 09:14 AM. Reason: typo
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