High speed chase results in 8 killed

High speed chase results in 8 killed

This is a discussion on High speed chase results in 8 killed within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A stolen car fleeing from police ran a stop sign and plowed into a pickup, killing five young children in the truck along with all ...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    High speed chase results in 8 killed

    A stolen car fleeing from police ran a stop sign and plowed into a pickup, killing five young children in the truck along with all three people in the car, the California Highway Patrol said. 4 Children Among 7 Dead in California Police Chase - Local News | News Articles | National News | US News - FOXNews.com

    I'm not convinced it's a good idea to automatically initiate a high-speed pursuit, and I realize policies vary on this around the country. But high-speed pursuits seem to be the most dangerous aspect (dangerous to innocent civilians, that is) of police work. I think high-speed pursuits should be curtailed drastically. I don't want my wife and kids killed over a stolen car. Let him go, or find another way to capture him.

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  2. #2
    Member Array compact's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    find another way to capture him.

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    'tis unfortunate, that goes without saying.

    touchy subject this is also, im sure it's a very touchy situation whenever the "chase" is initiated..

    bad guys will always be that, and they have little concern for women, children, the elderly, they just don't care.

    only idea i can muster is to have citizens armed for an agressive engagement, such as a carjacking, or a auto theft from a residence, for example, to "nip it in the bud" before it escalates to a high-speed chase, heaven knows the police can't be everywhere.

    terrible news, i must say again.

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    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    Sad deal all the way around.

    As far as the high speed chase, well it is a tough one.

    There is a large group on this site that say that property is not worth ones life. If we all subscribe to that thought then there would be no high speed chases because it is just property at that point over a stolen car.

    Of course there are the others on here that are willing to put somone's life in danger over their property, so I assume those would be ok with the high speed chases in order to get the bad guys.

    It really is a tough call, but like posted earlier, there are tragically innocent people that die during these things.
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    So the lesson for all concerned is just speed up the 'get-away' and you'll be good to go?
    The cops were certainly not at fault here. The dirtbags trying to flee got their just rewards.
    The family that was hit, however, failed to use car seats or seatbelts for their young children, who probably would have survived if properly attended to...whose fault is that?

    Had the police not chased the dirtbags, they would be critisized for not doing their jobs...a 'no-win' situation.
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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    So the lesson for all concerned is just speed up the 'get-away' and you'll be good to go?
    The cops were certainly not at fault here. The dirtbags trying to flee got their just rewards.
    The family that was hit, however, failed to use car seats or seatbelts for their young children, who probably would have survived if properly attended to...whose fault is that?

    Had the police not chased the dirtbags, they would be critisized for not doing their jobs...a 'no-win' situation.
    Absolutely correct, the children should have had restraints on. The story does not say if they were riding in the box of the truck but unless it was an extended cab they must have been.

    Anyway vehicle chases are a very dangerous part of law enforcement and most departments have strict guidelines about engaging in high speed chases. Often officers are not allowed unless the suspect is a danger to the public if they are not apprehended immediately.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    Let's also realize that the original news item was pretty short on details. It said the car was stolen and was fleeing from police - but did the car thieves just commit some other more serious offense? The point is, we don't know from the scant information provided - there might have been much more going on than "just" a stolen car.

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    Ex Member Array JOHNSMITH's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Sad deal all the way around.

    As far as the high speed chase, well it is a tough one.

    There is a large group on this site that say that property is not worth ones life. If we all subscribe to that thought then there would be no high speed chases because it is just property at that point over a stolen car.

    Of course there are the others on here that are willing to put somone's life in danger over their property, so I assume those would be ok with the high speed chases in order to get the bad guys.

    It really is a tough call, but like posted earlier, there are tragically innocent people that die during these things.
    True, but also remember that in a carjacking, someone isn't just stealing your car, they're also pointing some sort of weapon right at you - direct deadly force.

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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    Sad deal all the way around.

    As far as the high speed chase, well it is a tough one.

    There is a large group on this site that say that property is not worth ones life. If we all subscribe to that thought then there would be no high speed chases because it is just property at that point over a stolen car.

    Of course there are the others on here that are willing to put somone's life in danger over their property, so I assume those would be ok with the high speed chases in order to get the bad guys.

    It really is a tough call, but like posted earlier, there are tragically innocent people that die during these things.
    It's not always about property, most of the time it is because the person is a direct threat to public safety. In my area the officer usually needs permission to engage from a shift supervisor. That decision is based on many factors, mostly public safety.
    As you stated sometimes people die because of the pursuit but does the capture of the person out way that chance. Sometimes yes it does...
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    Senior Member Array lance22's Avatar
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    What a tragedy. I'm glad the perps died; it spares yet another California breach of justice that excuses crime. My prayers to the poor family caught in the path of those scum bags.

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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    Often officers are not allowed unless the suspect is a danger to the public if they are not apprehended immediately.
    That's generally the tipping point. It's not so much that LE is trying to recover property, they're trying to avoid follow-on or eventual victims of other crimes that will be perpetrated.
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    Senior Member Array Chevy-SS's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    ..... Often officers are not allowed unless the suspect is a danger to the public if they are not apprehended immediately.

    I can live with this protocol. But to kill so many innocents, just because of a stolen car, or in many cases a lowly traffic offense. Well, that's not worth it. Let the scumbags go.

    To any posters here, I will ask this simple question - IS IT WORTH THE POTENTIAL DEATHS AND/OR CRIPPLING INJURIES OF YOUR WIFE AND KIDS FOR OFFICERS TO CHASE (AT HIGH SPEEDS) A STOLEN CAR?

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    VIP Member Array rottkeeper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I can live with this protocol. But to kill so many innocents, just because of a stolen car, or in many cases a lowly traffic offense. Well, that's not worth it. Let the scumbags go.

    To any posters here, I will ask this simple question - IS IT WORTH THE POTENTIAL DEATHS AND/OR CRIPPLING INJURIES OF YOUR WIFE AND KIDS FOR OFFICERS TO CHASE (AT HIGH SPEEDS) A STOLEN CAR?

    -
    Again it depends on who stole it and the circumstances in the way it was taken. Was it taken by force? Was it taken to allude police from another crime or prison escape?
    Many that feel the police should not pursue, partake in texting while driving or many other dangerous habits everyday that claim more lives that the chases do. But when an officer of the law tries to take a scumbag off the road they are up in arms, oh what hypocrites .
    For the record I'm not calling you a hypocrite but those who have bad driving habits and condemn the police for performing a service.
    For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27

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    Senior Member Array TheGreatGonzo's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chevy-SS View Post
    I can live with this protocol. But to kill so many innocents, just because of a stolen car, or in many cases a lowly traffic offense. Well, that's not worth it. Let the scumbags go.

    To any posters here, I will ask this simple question - IS IT WORTH THE POTENTIAL DEATHS AND/OR CRIPPLING INJURIES OF YOUR WIFE AND KIDS FOR OFFICERS TO CHASE (AT HIGH SPEEDS) A STOLEN CAR?

    -
    For a simple stolen car...no. Absolutely not. However, what if your, unknown to you, kidnapped wife and child turned out to be in the trunk of that stolen car? Only when the chase began, nobody knew that. The police let them go, and tragically, their bodies are later recovered in that very car that the police let go. Will you be forgiving of the PD for letting the car go? Will the media? Will the public?

    Personally, I don't believe in pursuits for traffic violations and misdemeanor crimes. The danger of the pursuit tends to outweigh the nature of the crime committed. And there are other factors to consider. Can you identify the person driving and arrest them at a later date? Etc, etc, etc. Unfortunately, there are no easy answers. The police never know for certain why a driver chooses to flee; what other crimes they may have committed besides the one you observe; and what other crimes they may go on to commit because they are not pursued. As a Police Officer, you simply have no way of knowing. But, at the end of the day, somebody will not be happy with how you handled it. It may be as simple as the owner of the stolen car that you did not chase and recover. Or it may be as tragic as the families of the innocent victims who died in this pursuit. Or it may be as complicated as the kidnap victim you had no way of knowing was in the trunk of the car you did not pursue or the grieving widow of innocent man the escaped felon went on to murder later that night. The possibilities of tragedy that stem from what we simply have no way of knowing are endless. You have to be willing and able to live with the consequences of your choice to pursue or not to pursue. If you plan to wait for someone to laud you for making the right choice, you had better look for another career...it rarely happens. If you expect and understand that someone will always be standing in the wings to publicly gut you for making the wrong choice...welcome to law enforcement.

    The decision to pursue, when I was on patrol, was never an easy one. The responsibility of driving an emergency vehicle is no less than that of carrying a government issued firearm. I only wish the answers were easier. If you decide to pursue and continue the pursuit, even under dangerous conditions...you had better be prepared to live with the results. Good or bad.
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  14. #14
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    This can always be argued both ways. I was almost hit on my motorcycle due to a high speed chase. They stopped the pursuit right after that. I stopped to thank them... because if he had been 6 inches further I would have been dead.

    There's always another day. Good Judgment is knowing where that point is.

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    Senior Member Array dnowell's Avatar
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    If pursuits weren't allowed, everyone would just run from the police. You'd never see another stolen car stop for the rest of time. There'd be zero incentive to stop. I'm sorry that there are serious side effects, but you can't run a civil society when it simply takes running from the police to get away with a crime. Why even have police at all, if you know you can blow them off by starting a pursuit?

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