US Militia Movement - Page 6

US Militia Movement

This is a discussion on US Militia Movement within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I think my signature below says it all....

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  1. #76
    New Member Array melato's Avatar
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    I think my signature below says it all.
    “Always love your country — but never trust your government!


  2. #77
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    Hamilton has been well documented in his beliefs of an oligarchy so watch throwing around the term. He had contempt for the common man and believed they were not smart enough to manage their own affairs. If you take a little look at the alien and sedition acts that he helped architect and pressured Adams into signing it is plain to see his thoughts about the common man's perspective. Adams, and Washington before him, had their hands full trying to restrain his over zealous interpretation of federal powers. He was one of the first to find "implied" powers in the constitution.

    Central banking is the best methodology for dealing with the complex financial issues the nation faces. He was correct about central banking, he was correct about the standing army and he was correct about the Constitution.
    A central bank is one of the most dangerous ideas ever conceived. It allows the federal government to manipulate markets and choose who the winners and losers will be. See the Fascist countries of the early 20th century for reference. I will agree however that a central bank is preferable to the federal reserve which is an actual oligarchy.

    As for a standing army, I have no issues with one as long as it is not used to bully citizens of this country. I know you take me to be a crazy libertarian who thinks the government should have no power. I am actually somewhere between a libertarian and typical republican (I have principals though instead of the need for a particular party to win). I think the government has too much power now but do not believe in anarchy. I just think there needs to be actual tangible balances of power between all parts of the government.

    He is considered to be the greatest of the Founders.
    Maybe by you. There are many who disagree.

    This is wrong. The Federal government derives its power from the Constitution.
    It is wrong to try and use an army to intimidate the populace, it doesn't negate the fact that he had extensive arguments with Adams about doing it.

    If he would not have been killed by the sitting Vice President he assuredly would have been elected President of the United States.
    While I am not a fan of Burr, I do not think Hamilton would have had a chance to be president. His affair was a hay-day for the press and his popularity suffered greatly. I know you are keen to point out Jefferson's personal issues but seem to forget Hamilton had issues of his own. BTW I am not a Jefferson fan boy either. I think all of the founders had some flaws in their thinking but their overall compromise managed to weed out many of the bad ideas.

  3. #78
    Restricted Member Array SelfDefense's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by natticarry View Post
    Hamilton has been well documented in his beliefs of an oligarchy so watch throwing around the term. He had contempt for the common man and believed they were not smart enough to manage their own affairs.
    I am pretty sure that considering the current state of our republic and the ignorant people we allow to vote that Hamilton wasn't spot on in that observation, as well.

    If you take a little look at the alien and sedition acts that he helped architect and pressured Adams into signing it is plain to see his thoughts about the common man's perspective. Adams, and Washington before him, had their hands full trying to restrain his over zealous interpretation of federal powers. He was one of the first to find "implied" powers in the constitution.
    Actually, Washington and Adams had ther hands full of the anti-Federalists, their lies, libel and slander. Washington was spared out of respect for his great achievement. Adams, on the other hand, suffered the effects of the character assassination perpetrated by Jefferson and his cronies.

    A central bank is one of the most dangerous ideas ever conceived. It allows the federal government to manipulate markets and choose who the winners and losers will be.
    No, it does not.

    As for a standing army, I have no issues with one as long as it is not used to bully citizens of this country.
    Never has, never will. The Commander-in-chief is an elected civilian.

    I know you take me to be a crazy libertarian who thinks the government should have no power. I am actually somewhere between a libertarian and typical republican. I think the government has too much power now but do not believe in anarchy. I just think there needs to be actual tangible balances of power between all parts of the government.
    There are shades of everyone's political views. That is what makes this country great. It is also the reason a two party system is necessary for preserving our Republic.

    While I am not a fan of Burr, I do not think Hamilton would have had a chance to be president. His affair was a hay-day for the press and his popularity suffered greatly. I know you are keen to point out Jefferson's personal issues but seem to forget Hamilton had issues of his own.
    Sure, Jefferson and his gang were out to smear every Federalist. And ALL people have personal flaws. The Founders were hardly gods.

    What is disappointing is that many people lump the Founders into a homogeneous group as if they were all in political agreement. The differences then were even more pronounced than the differences today. It is amzing we have a nation at all, which is testament to the art of political compromise, completely lost on most of the politicians of today.

  4. #79
    Member Array Faitmaker's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    It is amzing we have a nation at all, which is testament to the art of political compromise, completely lost on most of the politicians of today.
    I think that is because the founders were sacrificing their personal agendas to build a free nation. Most were not seeking to secure their own power and push their own agendas despite what the populace believed or wanted.

    And again, you are correct. There are many shades of gray. Please continue to remember those words as you disparage all libertarians. As I've said before, it is not a subset of anarchy.
    "The smallest minority on earth is the individual. Those who deny individual rights cannot claim to be defenders of minorities." - Ayn Rand

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  5. #80
    Member Array natticarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SelfDefense View Post
    Never has, never will. The Commander-in-chief is an elected civilian.
    Its clear we can argue about this ad-nausem so I will only rebut this statement. Hitler was indirectly elected and a civilian, Chavez was elected. I am pretty sure they used the army to bully their populaces. The Japanese Americans who spent some time in interment camps during the 40's might also disagree that it has never happened here.

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