Sheriff says teen violence on this scale is very common

This is a discussion on Sheriff says teen violence on this scale is very common within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Col. Grossman has been discussed and discredited many times. People are responsible for their own actions not Mario Bros....

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Thread: Sheriff says teen violence on this scale is very common

  1. #16
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    Col. Grossman has been discussed and discredited many times. People are responsible for their own actions not Mario Bros.
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

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  3. #17
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    Col. Grossman has been discussed and discredited many times. People are responsible for their own actions not Mario Bros.
    Discredited by whom?! Self-proclaimed internet "experts", that's who!

    Grossman was a career military man who taught psychology at West Point, where he specialized in teaching the psychology of violence to U.S. Army officer cadets.

    Would you care to share your teaching credentials in psychology with the forum?

    Grossman NEVER claimed it was the video game and movie/TV violence by ITSELF that caused the problem. He did however prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is a CONTRIBUTING factor.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  4. #18
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    The problem with media violence (music, games, movies, etc.) is the CONSTANT and unrelenting bombardment from all sides. When this is combined with poor parenting the results are easy to predict.
    Quoted for truth!
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by jumpwing View Post
    The problem with media violence (music, games, movies, etc.) is the CONSTANT and unrelenting bombardment from all sides. When this is combined with poor parenting the results are easy to predict.
    I hate the word "parenting."

    We parented when they were born, then we taught/raised/reared them for years.

    As for poor rearing, I know some early childhood development academicians who are becoming concerned that the "approved"/"good" shows -- such as Nick Jr. Shows like "Dora the Explorer" are teaching young kids to see/accept the TV/video as authorities -- as more than just entertainment, more even than just role models, but particularly as a source of instruction to be followed in lieu of parental guidance.

    In their studies they are seeing not only poor "parenting" but a lack of the parents actual teaching/raising/rearing but rather abdicating all authority to something/someone else

    Not that justifies someone going bad nor should it let the perps off the hook.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  6. #20
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Lets play a game called kill the little criminals before they become big criminals,I would like to see that game played more often
    Sure... we could call it "Urban Vigilante", but then the ACLU would probably scream.

  7. #21
    Senior Member Array Phillep Harding's Avatar
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    (shrug) Historically, the young teen agers were the most eager to go out and raid other villages and tribes to prove they were warriors. They were generally too young to be interested in stealing women, at least for a couple of years.

    The older men encouraged them. More so they were making trouble somewhere else instead of hanging around making trouble at home, I suspect.

    The Boy Scouts was founded to shape the young teens during their instinctive tribal warrior years to keep them out of trouble by giving them something to do as a gang.

    So, now we got the Crips and Bloods and that sort of gang shaping the young teens.

  8. #22
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    Grossman NEVER claimed it was the video game and movie/TV violence by ITSELF that caused the problem. He did however prove beyond reasonable doubt that it is a CONTRIBUTING factor.
    Beyond a reasonable doubt? It was an opinion piece and a poorly written one at that. I don't recall any proof of anything in that book, certainly not enough to convince a jury. It has been a few years since I forgot about reading that book.

    is the CONSTANT and unrelenting bombardment from all sides. When this is combined with poor parenting the results are easy to predict.
    There is certainly truth in that statement.
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

  9. #23
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    Why has no one brought up the fact that many of these kids today are being taught that "it's all about them". They get the impression that no one and nothing else matters. They steal from and/or kill each other, their parents, neighbors, and anyone else with something they want. Then, because they're juvenile they expect to skate. Another reason to start prosecuting them as adults. Until it costs them more than they're getting there will be no change.

  10. #24
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by M203Sniper View Post
    Beyond a reasonable doubt? It was an opinion piece and a poorly written one at that. I don't recall any proof of anything in that book, certainly not enough to convince a jury. It has been a few years since I forgot about reading that book.
    ^WRONG.

    Your above post is an opinion piece, and a poorly written one at that.

    Grossman's book is thoroughly documented, and he is an internationally acknowledged authority in his area of expertise---the psychology of killing and violence.

    Would you care to share your professional credentials in the field of psychology?
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  11. #25
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    You know this pisses me off. I'm both a gamer and in school to be a game developer. The games have nothing to do with this. If you watch a movie or read a book about the same thing it doesn't do anything. Video games are the new rock music. You want something to blame? Why dont you ask the parents of these kids what is wrong .... if you can find them...

  12. #26
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    Could the games have something to do with it, combined with a lot of other socioeconomic factors, sure it could. But it is only a part of the whole equation.

    I have played my fair share of video games, even violent video games, I've watched a lot of violent movies. I grew up watching G.I. Joe and Transformers. And I've read Col. Grossmans books. The only influence I think all of those media experiences had on me was help build on a desire to join the military.

    When video games and tv start to become babysitters and to teach values to children, that is when it becomes a problem. The worst part is that it really isn't the child fault.
    Fortes Fortuna Juvat

    Former, USMC 0311, OIF/OEF vet
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  13. #27
    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by buckeyeLCPL View Post
    Could the games have something to do with it, combined with a lot of other socioeconomic factors, sure it could. But it is only a part of the whole equation.
    Which is PRECISELY what Colonel Grossman is also saying.

    Grossman has NEVER claimed that video games etc. are SOLELY to blame.

    But he has proven beyond reasonable doubt that they are PART of the "whole equation", i.e. PROBLEM.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

  14. #28
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    I still think this is just hyperventilation.

    Today they blame video games. 30 years ago they blamed Television. In the 50's they blamed comic books.

    Why aren't ALL of us murderous psychopaths?

    Because most of us had fathers, and when we misbehaved, sassed our parents, or just, "ran with the wrong crowd", they made us regret it.

    These kids become thugs, and their kind did so, long before "Grand Theft Auto IV".

  15. #29
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    A common thing with kids nowadays??

    Blame it all on violent video games??

    I say place the blame where it belongs - on the parents, who should be sharing that jail cell with their worthless kids....
    "Guard with jealous attention the public liberty. Suspect everyone who approaches that jewel. Unfortunately, nothing will preserve it but downright force. Whenever you give up that force, you are inevitably ruined". - Patrick Henry

  16. #30
    Member Array M203Sniper's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    ^WRONG.
    Grossman's book is thoroughly documented, and he is an internationally acknowledged authority in his area of expertise---the psychology of killing and violence.

    Would you care to share your professional credentials in the field of psychology?
    ^misinformed opinion.
    Typing in capital letters doesn't make it true.
    Only reading the parts of my post you want to read points to a latent homosexual urge in mid-life.

    Col. Grossman's book are not scripture and he is wrong on many points including the view that his opinion is absolute and he is actually a citable source. He is not.

    I could quote myself all day, that doesn't make me right. I could also seek dental advice from the people that make snicker's bars and look to the violence policy center for an informed opinion about firearms, but that wouldn't give me the facts I need to base an intelligent opinion on.

    People are responsible for their actions.
    That is a true statement.

    Video Games are the reason why kids are more violent today.
    That is a lie. It is based on an emotional reaction to an inanimate object. Video game makers like it because it sells stuff. Politicians like it because it gets votes. Sounds a whole bunch like the gun-control myths the anti's use to me.

    Do you believe guns are to blame for crime?

    Do pencils cause misspelled words?
    "Words can be as lethal as bullets; Choose them carefully, Aim them well & Use them sparingly."

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