Lock him in a van til he convulses - Page 2

Lock him in a van til he convulses

This is a discussion on Lock him in a van til he convulses within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Hopyard, I know you don't really feel this way about mans best friend. I think you just say things like that to incite a debate. ...

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Thread: Lock him in a van til he convulses

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Hopyard, I know you don't really feel this way about mans best friend. I think you just say things like that to incite a debate.

    Or maybe you are just a moron?
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array varob's Avatar
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    Hopyard, I know you don't really feel this way about mans best friend. I think you just say things like that to incite a debate.

    Or maybe you are just a moron?
    Don't believe what you hear and only half of what you see!
    -Tony Soprano

  3. #18
    Senior Member Array MilitaryPower's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The welfare of humans must always be put above that of either "money" or animals. So, I don't endorse jail for this idiot.

    It really wasn't that many years back that this sort of incident was nothing more than an "accident" which at most merited one line in the local rag and a few shakes of the head ---but was in no way considered criminal.

    I'm not endorsing what was done, but I do not think this merits much of a punishment.

    There have been rare incidents where parents accidentally left kids in cars and were not prosecuted. In one I recall, a man drove to work with a baby in the car and forgot that he was supposed to take him to child care. The circumstances were such that there was no prosecution.

    Dogs (much as we love them) are dogs. They are not people.
    I can see your point of view. Punishment for the the same crime committed on a person or committed on an animal should not be the same. Should he get jail time? Maybe, but if not then a big fine. This was a animal, not a person. If it was indeed an accident, it happens, but he must pay the consequences. He was lucky that that it was a dog and not a child. I am not excusing his behaviour, but how responsible for a dog can he be held? Now intentional behaviour that is egregious to animals usually turns towards humans, so it is a serious crime. But having him suffer the same fate as the dog? Come on, be serious. If you were speeding and hit a dog on the interstate, should you die that same way?

    I've lived with dogs and other animals during my whole life. I have built emotional attachments to some of them. Some of them I tolerate. Do I give some treatment that I don't give others? Sure. But I know in my mind, they are still animals. Do I treat them well and respect them as living creatures? Sure. Do some feel like part of the family? Sure, but in no way do they truly compare to my family.

    But then on the other hand, I lay rat traps, shoot coons and possums (to protect my animals and property), and if needed, any of my animals that do need it.

    I cannot stand animal fanatics that that say that animals have rights. They do not. We as humans have the Responsibility to be good stewards of them and take care of them should we take them under our wing. They are here for us. If I need meat, guess where I get it from? If I need a pack mule, guess who's up? Not my fellow human, that is for sure. I cannot stand animal fanatics that put animal's life value in line with human beings'. They can go hug a tiger then while I'm at home with my family eating steak (that happened to be some cow that had a family, boohoo). If this thing happened in China, the people would consider this dog half ready to eat. And they kill people for producing toys with lead in them? WTH.
    Gun control can be blamed in part for allowing 9/11 to happen.
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  4. #19
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    Has nothing to do with man's best friend/just justice

    Quote Originally Posted by varob View Post
    Hopyard, I know you don't really feel this way about mans best friend. I think you just say things like that to incite a debate.

    Or maybe you are just a moron?
    What I wrote actually has nothing to do with man's best friend. It has to do with the relative values we place on animal and human life.

    Of course we don't want people leaving dogs in hot cars. That however doesn't justify destroying a human's life by jailing the person and making a criminal out of them.

    Should the protection of the law extend to all animals? What about the mouse trap? What about crappy conditions at "shelters" and mass euthanasia at "shelters?"

    Look, the guy messed up. The dog suffered. It shouldn't have happened. Now, the real question is do we ruin the man's life for this?

    Animals are not people. If you have a religious viewpoint, animals don't have souls. If you don't have a religious viewpoint, animals still are not humans.

    If leaving the dog in the car was a malicious act done for the sake of inflicting cruelty, then I certainly can see punishing the man. But if it was an act of stupidity or an accident, and nothing more, I don't want my tax dollars spent on a trial, a defense attorney, or jail time. I don't want him to lose his rights.

    And no, I am quite far from being a moron, thank you. And yes, I have had dogs all of my life and I treat them quite well.

    Think about this now, when you take your dog to the vet you have the option to say to the vet that the estimated bill is going to be too high, I can't afford it, do the dog in. That is because the dog is not a human.

    We have different rules for dogs precisely because they are not human.

    There is no such thing (nor should there be) of negligent "dogicide," as there is for humans, negligent homicide. The animal cruelty law is being misused in this instance.

    Moreover, frankly, people who put animals above other humans make me question their own feelings for other members of humanity.

  5. #20
    Senior Member Array tbrenke's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by MilitaryPower View Post
    I cannot stand animal fanatics that that say that animals have rights. They do not. We as humans have the Responsibility to be good stewards of them and take care of them should we take them under our wing. They are here for us. If I need meat, guess where I get it from? If I need a pack mule, guess who's up? Not my fellow human, that is for sure. I cannot stand animal fanatics that put animal's life value in line with human beings'. They can go hug a tiger then while I'm at home with my family eating steak (that happened to be some cow that had a family, boohoo). If this thing happened in China, the people would consider this dog half ready to eat. And they kill people for producing toys with lead in them? WTH.

    +1
    there is a differance between people and our animals.
    leave your kid in the car and you get a slap on the wrist.

    when I see this level of outrage or greater for a dead child, then I would consider making it a crime for dogs.
    "I cannot undertake to lay my finger on that article of the Constitution, which granted a right to Congress of expending, on objects of benevolence, the money of their constituents." -1792, James Madison
    There are always too many Democratic, Republican and never enough U.S. congressmen.

  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Animal cruelty is criminal and should be punished with a fine and jail time.

    The guy didn't "forget" that he locked the dog in the van. How can a person not know a dog is in the vehicle? Dogs are always smearing the windows and darting around so they can see everything.

    Most people don't get punished when they "forget" the baby in the backseat. The baby is locked into a carseat and is usually sound asleep. Prosecutors usually choose not to prosecute the parent because the parent has been punished enough by losing a child. The prosecutor feels sorry for the parent because the parent is stricken with guilt and grief.

    Big difference.

    It's called common sense, which is lacking in today's liberal, progressive, and secular society.
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  7. #22
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    Let me make sure I understand you

    Quote Originally Posted by Patti View Post
    Animal cruelty is criminal and should be punished with a fine and jail time.

    The guy didn't "forget" that he locked the dog in the van. How can a person not know a dog is in the vehicle? Dogs are always smearing the windows and darting around so they can see everything.

    Most people don't get punished when they "forget" the baby in the backseat. The baby is locked into a carseat and is usually sound asleep. Prosecutors usually choose not to prosecute the parent because the parent has been punished enough by losing a child. The prosecutor feels sorry for the parent because the parent is stricken with guilt and grief.

    Big difference.

    It's called common sense, which is lacking in today's liberal, progressive, and secular society.
    It sounds to me like you are saying that it is OK to not punish a parent because they have "suffered enough," but by G-d, that dog owner needs to be punished?

    What a clear example of someone emotionally putting an animal's welfare above that of a human being.

    An animal is not a human. Leaving a baby in the car till dead is negligent homicide. Sometimes it isn't prosecuted because indeed some prosecutors do have common sense and it prevails.

    The same should occur with death of a dang dog. Common sense says its life is beneath that of a human, and the prosecutor should exercise some common sense.

  8. #23
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    Hopyard... Are you saying that Michael Vick probably shouldn't have gone to prison over his crimes? And yes, I understand there were additional crimes such as illegal gambling and such involved, but animal cruelty was included in the charges.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #24
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    The person that would treat an animal like this would probably have the same disregard for human life,Accidents happen,but locking an animal in a car in 100+ heat after all the warnings against it for even a few minutes shows your either an Idiot or you just don't care because you want to go play in the water and cool off because It's really hot outside.
    We've actually had 2 kids down here that died in the same way in the last month
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Accident or Negligence? By today's definition: "accident," right? Oops, forgot he was there; didn't mean to roast Fido; didn't intend to harm him; couldn't find the keys; couldn't find my brain; there was a fire; there was a flood; it wasn't my faaaaaaaault! Excuses, excuses.

    Nope. Not a chance in Hades, as the dog'll attest.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  11. #26
    Senior Member Array NYcarry's Avatar
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    It's just an animal, mistakes happen, so if I take my dear pet Ducks as part of my family what should be done to the hunters that shoot them and then have the dogs retrieve still live bird.
    That's seems just as cruel and this is intentional.

  12. #27
    Member Array tougeep3's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Moreover, frankly, people who put animals above other humans make me question their own feelings for other members of humanity.
    I like alot more dogs than I do people. There are other members of humanity that will kill you for your shoes or a nice watch. There are some people who kill other people for fun. Then you have others who are two-faced, say things to you to tear you down. Never had a pet do that. I'd put my dogs over any of them..

  13. #28
    Senior Member Array flagflyfish's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by tougeep3 View Post
    I like alot more dogs than I do people. There are other members of humanity that will kill you for your shoes or a nice watch. There are some people who kill other people for fun. Then you have others who are two-faced, say things to you to tear you down. Never had a pet do that. I'd put my dogs over any of them..
    I couldn't agree more, nobody but myself is responsible for the safety and wellbeing of my best friend. I've had to not go places in the summer because Ruger (my chocolate lab) would have to stay in the truck and would be too hot. It's not a big deal and is part of keeping a pet.
    "These are the times that try men's souls. The summer soldier
    and the sunshine patriot will, in this crisis, shrink from the
    service of his country; but he that stands it now, deserves the
    love and thanks of man and woman."

    -- Thomas Paine (The American Crisis, No. 1, 19 December 1776)

  14. #29
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    Man, throw me on the fire and roast me with Hopyard and Military Power. Unintentionally killing an animal through negligence is worse than deliberately shooting a deer, moose or elk? What if the hunter makes a bad shot and the wounded animal escapes? The animal might suffer for days or even weeks before it succumbs instead of mere hours.

    When the welfare of children in this country are given similar priority, I'll be willing to discuss punishment for negligent or malicious pet owners. Until then, I say make the guy eat the dog while reminding him of all the starving children in Africa who would be delighted at such a feast.

    I have six children and a German Shepherd. If the dog were between me and an armed attacker, I would still take the shot in spite of the risk. I would never do the same if an innocent human were in the same position.

    To paraphrase Penn Gillette from one episode of B******t!: I would hunt down and kill the last member of an endangered species of monkey with my bare hands to save the life of one homeless junkie with AIDS.

    I love and enjoy animals, but in comparison to human life, they don't even register on the radar.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  15. #30
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    ^ But the situation wasn't any of that, having to choose between a dog and a human. Rather, it was a person taking no care for his own dog's health, killing it via his own actions. He gets a bye?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

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