Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

This is a discussion on Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by nova83tx Well, I play plenty of poker, and I have neither a thug or a criminal. Many of our poker games don't ...

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Thread: Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

  1. #16
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova83tx View Post
    Well, I play plenty of poker, and I have neither a thug or a criminal.

    Many of our poker games don't start until 10PM till certain guys get off retail jobs, and will easily go till 2am. Many times they are at a private residence, but I have attended a few that were at offices, just because we have plenty of space, and no wives interrupting telling us to keep it down.

    Gambling laws vary from state to state, so check your local laws. This incident in Houston was most likely legal, as long as the game is in private and no person makes money for operating the game (except as a player, but NO house rake) . . . there were no laws broken.

    As for the OP . . . I always carry to card games, because anyone that knows there is a card game getting together is aware there will be a number of guys with cash on them. I always pick my games carefully, and only play with groups I know well . . . but that doesn't make us immune to observant and opportunistic criminals.

    Would I open fire on 3 gunmen? Most likely not, because I would assume they are there for the cash and will leave without executing 6+ guys. Unless severe threats are made, or a BG fires first, I am keeping holstered. If I draw, I am escalating a situation with 3 other armed BGs that might have walked out. Me vs. 3 BG in a crowded room of bystanders, I don't want to fire unless I absolutely have to. If they do something though, and the SHTF, I will be ready to draw and respond as best I can.


    I personally wouldn't want to wait for SHTF. I would have hand on gun and wait for the most opportune moment to send armed robbers to Hell. "escalating the situation"? I dont know how much more escalating it could get. Just my 2 cents.

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  3. #17
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    I personally wouldn't want to wait for SHTF. I would have hand on gun and wait for the most opportune moment to send armed robbers to Hell. "escalating the situation"? I dont know how much more escalating it could get. Just my 2 cents.
    Do you routinely practice drills firing at 3 targets that are fairly well spread out, while having to use a slower acquisition and shoot because you have to double check the background, and you need to possibly fire multiple shots at each BG before you can move to the next one.

    I can't wait for LEOs and others better trained then myself to chime in here, but something tells me 3 vs 1 when they already have their guns drawn and ready, is a bad tactical choice for you to engage.

    By escalating the situation, I was thinking something along the lines of huddling up everyone prepping for executions, or if one of them is yelling to another "let's just shoot them and get out of here".
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" - Theodore Roosevelt

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    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova83tx View Post
    Do you routinely practice drills firing at 3 targets that are fairly well spread out, while having to use a slower acquisition and shoot because you have to double check the background, and you need to possibly fire multiple shots at each BG before you can move to the next one.

    I can't wait for LEOs and others better trained then myself to chime in here, but something tells me 3 vs 1 when they already have their guns drawn and ready, is a bad tactical choice for you to engage.

    By escalating the situation, I was thinking something along the lines of huddling up everyone prepping for executions, or if one of them is yelling to another "let's just shoot them and get out of here".

    My concern is that whether it be an armed robbery, car jacking, home invasion etc. it seems that the perp is just as likely to shoot you dead instead of leaving a witness. Thats all I'm saying.

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    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    My concern is that whether it be an armed robbery, car jacking, home invasion etc. it seems that the perp is just as likely to shoot you dead instead of leaving a witness.
    I have that EXACT same concern, as should anyone who is ever put in an armed robbery scenario. I don't want to roll the dice on wether I live or die by the mood that the BG is feeling that day, just the same as you.

    I look at it that if I open fire on 3 armed bad guys who already have their weapons out, I am then increasing my chances for injury or death. Here are possible scenarios of how this poker heist could play out:

    1) 3 BGs enter, weapons present, and I channel Chuck Norris or Neo and somehow draw, aim, place 2-3 shots center mass on each bad guy, avoid shooting any bystanders, and avoid being shot myself. HIGHLY UNLIKELY. Maybe some of you guys have those skills, but I don't think the majority of CHL/CCWs do.

    2) 3 BGs enter, weapons present, and start to open fire at poker patrons. I lose a second, and hope I am not shot at first, but I still would most likely be able to draw and fire seeing as how there are 6+ other targets the BGs could be firing at first.

    3) 3 BGs enter, weapons present, and rob us at gunpoint. They then start to take actions such as hurdling us up against a wall and kneeling down, or verbal communications between the BGs knowing they were about to shoot . . . I could then still react before they fire a shot, and would essentially become scenario 1.

    4) 3 BGs enter, weapons present, and rob us at gunpoint. I hand over the cash and stand there doing nothing. They get their intended loot, and not wanting to have a 1st degree murder charge X6, they then leave the office. I take down notes on physical descriptions, weapon types, license plate, etc. Everyone walks away a little lighter in the wallet, but uninjured . . . many armed robberies end like this, so I don't want to set in motion actions that would make sure injury and death would occur.


    If anyone has a 5th or more scenarios that I am overlooking, please feel free to share.

    I don't know how others might handle it, but I am going to chose actions which lead to the least likely possibility of me being shot and killed. Escalating a situation and opening fire at 3 armed gunmen when I am at a severe tactical disadvantage in my mind increases the likelihood of injury.

    There are other tactical situations besides this 3v1 where I would shoot first, but this isn't one of them.
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" - Theodore Roosevelt

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