Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

This is a discussion on Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Robbery suspect shot dead in card room gunbattle By DALE LEZON Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle Sept. 3, 2009, 8:20AM Share Print Share Del.icio.usDiggTwitterYahoo! BuzzFacebookStumbleUponA suspected ...

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Thread: Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Another thug taken out by Joe Citizen in Houston

    Robbery suspect shot dead in card room gunbattle
    By DALE LEZON Copyright 2009 Houston Chronicle
    Sept. 3, 2009, 8:20AM
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    Print Share Del.icio.usDiggTwitterYahoo! BuzzFacebookStumbleUponA suspected robber was killed and another man was injured in a gunbattle after three masked gunmen ambushed a card game in southwest Houston this morning, police said.

    Around 2:30 a.m., witnesses said the masked men waited for someone to leave the game, which was held inside an unmarked office park unit behind a shopping center in the 5600 block of Hillcroft just south of Westpark.

    The gunmen burst in through the open door and began robbing patrons, one of whom pulled his own pistol, said Sgt. Juan M. De La Cruz, a Houston homicide detective. A gunfight ensued.

    One suspect was killed and one of the patrons suffered a non-life threatening wound and was taken to a nearby hospital. Police, who found multiple 9-millimeter shell casings at the scene, say the other two suspects fled.

    Police recovered card tables, cards and cash, and one of the patrons said everyone at the game knew each other. Police said they didn't immediately know who rents the space, which like many in the complex has no signage.

    De La Cruz said the gambling matter would be turned over to the vice squad, but it wasn't clear whether the game was illegal. In Texas, there's nothing wrong with money changing hands in poker and other games as long as someone isn't taking a cut.

    Identities of those involved were not immediately released, and no arrests were made.


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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    More accurately this is a case of criminals preying on criminals acting criminally, at prime crime time.

    Gambling outside of a casino or other state sanctioned hall is a crime most everywhere.
    And I'll bet that none of the gun handlers, they all were BGs, were doing so as within the letter of the law.

    I can't get excited about criminals capping each other.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    More accurately this is a case of criminals preying on criminals acting criminally, at prime crime time.

    Gambling outside of a casino or other state sanctioned hall is a crime most everywhere.
    And I'll bet that none of the gun handlers, they all were BGs, were doing so as within the letter of the law.

    I can't get excited about criminals capping each other.

    - Janq

    You may be right (about the shooter being another thug), but in Texas you can play cash poker games as long as the HOUSE doesn't get a take. Ask any fireman. LOL

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Good point. ^^

    I'd forgotten about that legal concession.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    Member Array Glock30SF's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    More accurately this is a case of criminals preying on criminals acting criminally, at prime crime time.

    Gambling outside of a casino or other state sanctioned hall is a crime most everywhere.
    And I'll bet that none of the gun handlers, they all were BGs, were doing so as within the letter of the law.

    I can't get excited about criminals capping each other.

    - Janq


    Not so fast. While I tend to side with you about all probably being criminals, I think any day a BG takes a dirt nap is a good day.
    “The world is a dangerous place, not because of those who do evil, but because of those who look on and do nothing.”.... Albert Einstein

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    Distinguished Member Array Rcher's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    More accurately this is a case of criminals preying on criminals acting criminally, at prime crime time.
    - Janq
    I'm not quite sure what you said but I agree.

    Thugs killin' thugs.
    "Government is not the solution to our problem; government IS the problem". - Ronald Reagan 1981

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Glock30SF View Post
    Not so fast. While I tend to side with you about all probably being criminals, I think any day a BG takes a dirt nap is a good day.
    In the short run yes, but against the long term result it harms us...law abiding citizens.

    Much of the nations past and present gun laws were made because of criminal vs. criminal criminal actions.

    Anti gun people will, do, and have seen incidents exactly like this as being fuel for their fire to; 1) Ban carry/concealed carry of arms (not just firearms but arms period) and 2) Ban allowance of all civilian right to keep/possess arms, without regard to location or purpose as a matter of 'public safety'.

    I am being completely serious here.

    See the laws of MA, NJ, CA, MD, amongst many others and though not initiated in same (Sullivan Act) the gun laws of NYC have been and are continued by way of this same thinking/reasoning.

    Clearly this manner of thought is wrong, and biased against lawfully acting and law abiding citizens...while being strongly beneficial toward criminals.
    On the other side of that same coin though lies the view as mentioned here, and by you, that the ends justify the means.
    Which is equally wrong.

    Criminals taking each other down, and in this case out, as predator vs. predator is okay as they eliminate each other and assumedly thin their numbers.
    But we know from results that this supposed and theoretical end result does not actually occur by real life results. They do not thin out. Rather they continue to grow and expand in numbers as well as target focus and brazenness. There is a ton of American criminal history alone that shows this past and modern current.

    What we do not need nor want at all is crime and murder amongst our streets, period.
    Endorsing as much is not wise and supporting actions by involved persons may feel good and right in the immediate. But what happens when those same activities and actions by criminals preying on criminals spills over into the life of law abiding persons? Which it will and very often has and still does.

    Events such as this where it's clearly criminals vs. criminals as all parties involved acting criminally should be by all of us, anti-gun and pro-gun, roundly discouraged and not at all supported in any way by any means to no end at all. For sake of our own preservation of life, liberty, laws, and legality to keep and carry arms for a wide array of purposes be they sporting, hunting, defense or any other non-criminal reasoning.

    Do not forget that to those who wish to strip you, me, us and our children of our basic human rights as recognized singularly in this country by our Constitution see us all as being similar and same as to these type criminals.
    Further they view and use those of us who support such criminal activity by criminals as being additional reason to question our own best judgment and ability to discern right from wrong from emotion from reason, 'reasonableness', and logic too.

    I personally do not support nor endorse criminal activity period, regardless of the reasoning or end result. Anything less can and often times per history past has resulted in reduction if not loss of freedoms for all.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Truly spoken, "There is no honor among thieves".....
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    New Member Array DanF's Avatar
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    So because they are playing poker they are automatically thugs and criminals?

    Guess I should just relinquish my CCL now and turn myself into the police.


    <sigh>

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    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DanF View Post
    So because they are playing poker they are automatically thugs and criminals?
    When you and your friends get together for a card game at what location and time of the day/night do you most commonly do so?

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    New Member Array DanF's Avatar
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    I'm not saying the game wasnt illegal(very well could have been), but ASSUMING it is, based on time of day/location is a little presumptuous.

    I work nights, am out at all hours, and play poker whenever a game gets together. Where I play, and at what time of day makes absolutely no difference(considering I would not play in an illegal game).

    I will give you this, the location of the game does(whether right or wrong) make the game more suspect, but still......

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    Member Array BaserRonin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    When you and your friends get together for a card game at what location and time of the day/night do you most commonly do so?

    - Janq
    We normally play until about 4 am. Sometimes we play in the lobby of a funeral home if the mortician is on call. The house takes no cut, so we are legal to do so in CO. So yes, we commonly have card games that last all night in strange locations. Everyone there is gainfully employed, everyone there has at least a bachelors in some form of engineering (even the mortician), and there are at least 3 of us who come armed.

    We are long time friends and so far as I know no one there is a criminal aside from traffic violations.

    Location in the article might be considered suspect, but 2 am is hardly late for any poker game I have ever sat in on.

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    VIP Member Array miklcolt45's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by BaserRonin View Post
    We normally play until about 4 am. Sometimes we play in the lobby of a funeral home if the mortician is on call. The house takes no cut, so we are legal to do so in CO. So yes, we commonly have card games that last all night in strange locations. Everyone there is gainfully employed, everyone there has at least a bachelors in some form of engineering (even the mortician), and there are at least 3 of us who come armed.

    We are long time friends and so far as I know no one there is a criminal aside from traffic violations.

    Location in the article might be considered suspect, but 2 am is hardly late for any poker game I have ever sat in on.
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    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    When you and your friends get together for a card game at what location and time of the day/night do you most commonly do so?

    - Janq
    When my friends and I play poker, we often do it at our office complex at work, and the games often go to 2-3am. You are just as wrong to assume people playing poker are criminals as are people who assume you are a criminal because you carry a gun.

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    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    When you and your friends get together for a card game at what location and time of the day/night do you most commonly do so?
    Well, I play plenty of poker, and I have neither a thug or a criminal.

    Many of our poker games don't start until 10PM till certain guys get off retail jobs, and will easily go till 2am. Many times they are at a private residence, but I have attended a few that were at offices, just because we have plenty of space, and no wives interrupting telling us to keep it down.

    Gambling laws vary from state to state, so check your local laws. This incident in Houston was most likely legal, as long as the game is in private and no person makes money for operating the game (except as a player, but NO house rake) . . . there were no laws broken.

    As for the OP . . . I always carry to card games, because anyone that knows there is a card game getting together is aware there will be a number of guys with cash on them. I always pick my games carefully, and only play with groups I know well . . . but that doesn't make us immune to observant and opportunistic criminals.

    Would I open fire on 3 gunmen? Most likely not, because I would assume they are there for the cash and will leave without executing 6+ guys. Unless severe threats are made, or a BG fires first, I am keeping holstered. If I draw, I am escalating a situation with 3 other armed BGs that might have walked out. Me vs. 3 BG in a crowded room of bystanders, I don't want to fire unless I absolutely have to. If they do something though, and the SHTF, I will be ready to draw and respond as best I can.
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" - Theodore Roosevelt

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