GOOD: Granny Gets The Job Done - Bedford Township, MI

This is a discussion on GOOD: Granny Gets The Job Done - Bedford Township, MI within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Woman: Shooting man was self-defense | battlecreekenquirer.com | The Enquirer A 70-year-old Bedford Township woman said Friday she had no choice but to shoot a ...

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Thread: GOOD: Granny Gets The Job Done - Bedford Township, MI

  1. #1
    Distinguished Member Array CT-Mike's Avatar
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    GOOD: Granny Gets The Job Done - Bedford Township, MI

    Woman: Shooting man was self-defense | battlecreekenquirer.com | The Enquirer

    A 70-year-old Bedford Township woman said Friday she had no choice but to shoot a man coming at her with a shovel.

    "I didn't want to hurt him but I didn't want him to hurt me," Virginia Hawes said in an interview at her home in Bedford Hills Mobile Village. "I didn't want to kill him. I just wanted to stop him. If he would have stopped, no one would have gotten hurt."

    Battle Creek police said Hawes shot Nicholas Beltz, 24, in the leg in her yard about 7:30 p.m. Thursday.

    "He kept coming at me. [b]I pointed the gun at his head, but I didn't want to shoot him in the head. I wimped out,"[b] she said.

    Hawes said Beltz threatened her after she called police because his girlfriend, Emily Bannister, 18, said she was being assaulted.

    Hawes said Bannister came to sit on her porch until police came. When Beltz began walking toward them, Hawes said she warned him to stay off her property.

    "She was sitting on the porch and she got up but I told her to stay," Hawes said. "He said he just wanted to talk to her and he wanted to tell her he loved her and he kept coming. I thought he was going to hurt her."

    Hawes' grandson, Bryan Hawes, 23, was outside with his grandmother and picked up a shovel, held it out horizontally in an attempt to block Beltz. But Beltz pushed Bryan Hawes aside and took the shovel.

    Virginia Hawes said that is when she went inside her home, put five bullets in her .38-caliber revolver and walked back outside, holding the gun to her side.

    She bought the handgun in March as protection from a former family member, registered it and had taken classes and practiced at South Side Sportsman Club in Battle Creek.

    "I told him to get back and he kept walking toward me. I put the gun up and told him to get back or I will shoot. He called me an old ***** and he kept coming at me and holding the shovel."

    Hawes said he told Beltz a half-dozen times to stop and leave her property.

    When they were about four feet apart, she said he dropped the shovel but continued forward.

    "He said, 'Shoot me in the head old ***** and I will take the gun away from you,' and I thought, 'If I shoot him in the head, how can he take the gun away?'"

    Hawes said she believed that Beltz had been drinking and taking drugs and she decided she had to shoot.

    She pointed the gun at his foot and pulled the trigger but said he stepped into the bullet and it hit him above the right knee.

    "I figured I had to stop him. He was too drunk or high to understand," she said. "He went down like a tree."

    After the shooting, Hawes went back inside the trailer, put the gun away and told her grandson to call police. When officers arrived, Beltz was on the ground moaning and she was handcuffed and placed in a patrol car after officers went inside to retrieve the gun.

    Hawes, her grandson and witnesses were taken to the police station and questioned and she was released.

    "I was prepared to spend a night in jail, but I didn't want to."

    She doesn't regret the shooting.

    "He was on our property and we were in danger. I didn't want to shoot in the air. I probably could have reached out and conked him with the gun.

    "I have nothing to say to him. I really don't want to see him anymore."

    Detective Sgt. Carter Bright of the Battle Creek Police Department said a report about the shooting will be sent to the prosecutor's office "but it appears to be self defense."

    Bright said warrants have been issued charging domestic violence against Beltz and his girlfriend and assault and battery against Beltz, with Bryan Hawes as the victim.

    Beltz's mother, Denise, said Friday afternoon her son remains in the hospital with significant pain.

    "I am very upset by this. It was wrong that she had a gun and shot him. Nick is very upset and doesn't know why she did it."

    Denise Beltz insisted her son would not hurt anyone and that her understanding was that he had turned to walk away when he was shot in the back of the leg; Bright said that theory does not appear to be true.

    "It doesn't give her a right to have a gun when Nick didn't have a gun," Denise Beltz said.
    Wow,

    Quite a few things that we can learn from in this story:

    1 - Granny Hawes should've had the gun loaded and on her person, especially if she bought to defend herself from a violent family member

    2 - Denise Beltz needs to get a clue. Granny Hawes had EVERY right to have a gun, especially when being confronted by a violent man much younger and presumably stronger than herself.

    3 - Lucky for Granny Hawes that Beltz went down when shot in the leg. What if he kept on coming, being drunk, high, or whatever? She should have followed her initial instincts. Luckily it worked out.

    4 - Denise Beltz needs to get another clue about her son's behavior, and wake up to the fact that he isn't the little angel he probably was as a tot.

    Where was the need to handcuff Granny?
    "The natural progress of things is for liberty to yield, and government to gain ground."

    - Thomas Jefferson

    "I'm the arrow, you're my bow, shoot me forth and I will go"

    "Do not let any individual posts put a knot in your Big Boy Under-Roos"

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  3. #2
    Member Array ImaShepardRU's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CT-Mike View Post
    Wow,

    Quite a few things that we can learn from in this story:

    1 - Granny Hawes should've had the gun loaded and on her person, especially if she bought to defend herself from a violent family member

    2 - Denise Beltz needs to get a clue. Granny Hawes had EVERY right to have a gun, especially when being confronted by a violent man much younger and presumably stronger than herself.

    3 - Lucky for Granny Hawes that Beltz went down when shot in the leg. What if he kept on coming, being drunk, high, or whatever? She should have followed her initial instincts. Luckily it worked out.

    4 - Denise Beltz needs to get another clue about her son's behavior, and wake up to the fact that he isn't the little angel he probably was as a tot.

    Where was the need to handcuff Granny?
    Yep. I agree.
    1. That would be better. Can you believe she had time to load it and come back out!?

    2. Amen. Typical though.

    "I didn't want to kill him. I just wanted to stop him. If he would have stopped, no one would have gotten hurt."
    3. Again, I agree. If he kept coming, I am sure she would have followed her instincts to shoot again. Shoot to stop the threat; as Granny says above. Don't shoot to 'wound'; which is what she did when she 'wimped out'. It may not stop the threat. Granny got lucky. If the BG didn't go down, it sounds like he would have been on her, and may indeed have taken the gun away. WAAAY too close.

    4. Typical again. They are always innocent, good, boys aren't they?
    I think you nailed it, parents seem to always remember the way they were when they were little. They conveniently forget, (or are unwilling to admit) that the used-to-be-tot is now 'grown-up', beatin' on his girl, stealin' for drug money, running with a street gang, or trying to make his initiation into one.

    Brother!

    Go Granny, go!!!
    This is the law;
    The purpose of fighting is to win.
    There is no possible victory in defense.
    The sword is more important than the shield and skill is more important than either.
    The final weapon is the brain. All else is supplemental. - John Steinbeck

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    Well done, Granny!

    Young Beltz now has a "permanent reminder of a temporary feeling," to quote Jimmy Buffett.

    And Mrs. Beltz failed to teach her little darling proper manners... "yes, ma'am" and "no, ma'am" instead of "you old b****."

    And as for cuffing old Virginia, might just be SOP for the cops. Hope they didn't make them too tight.

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    I'm glad it turned out OK!

    Lots of things not to do!

    Gun should have been kept in a state of readiness.

    She shouldn't have disarmed herself by putting the gun back in house.

    She should have shot center mass instead of trying to shoot in the foot and hitting him in the leg. (could be construed by an unscrupulous prosecutor that if she only intended to wound him then it wasn't justified in using a deadly weapon and the threat wasn't serious enough at that point. I'm just sayin.... so don't harp on me.)

    Bad guy's mom needs to get a grip!

    Overall, good job!

    Granny with a gun = 1
    Punk with shovel = 0
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

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    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    Well done, Granny!
    I respectfully disagree that it was well done.

    Granny got lucky and no innocents were hurt, but she made some serious errors that could've resulted in things turning out a lot worse.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

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    Member Array jsnole's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post


    I'm glad it turned out OK!

    Lots of things not to do!

    Gun should have been kept in a state of readiness.

    She shouldn't have disarmed herself by putting the gun back in house.

    She should have shot center mass instead of trying to shoot in the foot and hitting him in the leg. (could be construed by an unscrupulous prosecutor that if she only intended to wound him then it wasn't justified in using a deadly weapon and the threat wasn't serious enough at that point. I'm just sayin.... so don't harp on me.)

    Bad guy's mom needs to get a grip!

    Overall, good job!

    Granny with a gun = 1
    Punk with shovel = 0
    I agree totally with the bold statement above.
    Jamie

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    Senior Member Array Jackle1886's Avatar
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    It is always interesting to see stuff like this happen so close to ones home. Just makes your realize how realistic this garbage is. Way to go Granny!!
    Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.

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    Member Array kingdaddyoh's Avatar
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    Good ole granny. Nice bedtime story. Next time he tries something like this the story will start with "he was limping toward me with a shovel..."
    Ain't no fun when the rabbit has a gun!

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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    I respectfully disagree that it was well done.

    Granny got lucky and no innocents were hurt, but she made some serious errors that could've resulted in things turning out a lot worse.
    I could pick on Granny for several tactical and operational failures, sure. But if you boil it down to simple binary states, she was prepared to defend herself; she warned the assailant to cease his aggressive behavior; and she pulled the trigger when she had to.

    In my circles, "well done" is a laudatory expression meaning the same as "bravo." Or in Granny's case, "brava."

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    Member Array Defensive Arms's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    I could pick on Granny for several tactical and operational failures, sure. But if you boil it down to simple binary states, she was prepared to defend herself; she warned the assailant to cease his aggressive behavior; and she pulled the trigger when she had to. In my circles, "well done" is a laudatory expression meaning the same as "bravo." Or in Granny's case, "brava."
    I'm not concerned about "simple binary states".

    The hard fact remains, she made multiple major errors that could've cost her and her grandson their lives, and should be pointed out.

    Granny was lucky this time. If she didn't learn anything from the experience, she might not be so lucky next time.

    By discussing her errors, hopefully some of the more inexperienced members here can learn from them.
    "I've run across shooting after shooting where the defender shot a violent aggressor with a .380 and did little to immediately stop his depredations. A good hollow point load in 9mm or .38 Special will, historically, end lethal assaults more quickly."

    ~ Massad Ayoob

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    Distinguished Member Array Rugergirl's Avatar
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    Since we are all experts here, we can critique Granny all day, and not change the fact that she did exactly what she intended to do, and that was stop the threat.
    Sure I would done a lot of things differently, as would most of us, but at the end of the day, Granny got the job done.
    That said I hope Granny might do things differently in the future, since she is still with us and still has a future.
    A lot of "Grannies" would have done a lot worse, by not being prepared as Mrs. Beltz was.
    Good job Mrs. B!
    Disclaimer: The posts made by this member are only the members opinion, not a reflection on anyone else, nor the group, and should not be cause for anyone to get their undergarments wedged in an uncomfortable position.

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    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Defensive Arms View Post
    I'm not concerned about "simple binary states".

    The hard fact remains, she made multiple major errors that could've cost her and her grandson their lives, and should be pointed out.

    Granny was lucky this time. If she didn't learn anything from the experience, she might not be so lucky next time.

    By discussing her errors, hopefully some of the more inexperienced members here can learn from them.
    I agree. These incidents aren't posted for the sake of the original participants but for board members.

    I have one additional critique that I'll offer up. Those of us who are not police officers have no duty to engage with bad guys. It appears from the story that these people had the opportunity to retreat into the relative safety of the house and chose not to do so. Not the best move in my opinion. If you are reluctant to use deadly force, then why not reduce the likelihood of having to resort to it?

    One last thought. The grandson needs someone to talk to him about the potential danger of damaged goods, referring here to the assailant's girlfriend. What young man with chivalrous notions doesn't want to be the knight in shining armor to a damsel in distress? Been there, done that, got the t-shirt. Chances are she'll mistake the contrast between her boyfriend's brutality and your gentleness for weakness on your part. Even if she sticks around, she may well attempt to provoke a jealous response from you as a test.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

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    I think Granny did exceptionally well. She did just recently arm herself, and she took action...many wouldn't have done that.
    I'm sure that the 'wonderful boy' won't be back for another encounter.

    Congrats, Granny!
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by kingdaddyoh View Post
    Good ole granny. Nice bedtime story. Next time he tries something like this the story will start with "he was limping toward me with a shovel..."
    Dang it. Now I have mashed banana coming out my nose.

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    "It doesn't give her a right to have a gun when Nick didn't have a gun," Denise Beltz said.
    this woman is a real Einstein.
    from now on leave your gun loaded granny.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

    Government, even in its best state, is but a necessary evil; in its worst state, an intolerable one.
    ― Thomas Paine

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