September 11th, 2009 07:26 PM
Arson is not relevant to this thread subject in specific...But to go there, such an action would definitely be a furtive attempt to take life.
Originally Posted by gasmitty
But again that's a whole other matter, and news account.
Another might be slipping a bag full of know to be poisonous snakes into ones air vents or... :p
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
September 11th, 2009 09:06 PM
odd...how did this end up in this thread...self deleting...
Last edited by packinnova; September 11th, 2009 at 09:16 PM.
"My God David, We're a Civilized society."
"Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
-The Mist (2007)
September 11th, 2009 09:30 PM
Once I'm locked in my bedroom with the family and someone is trying to get through the door, he is getting numerous warnings while on the cell with 911. Once he comes through the door, if the first magazine doesn't stop him, the second one in my left hand will hopefully do the trick and stop the attack.
September 11th, 2009 10:36 PM
re similar attack, San Marcos Tx last week
How would Texas view such a homeowner?
The San Marcos guy got off I heard.
September 11th, 2009 11:36 PM
Nope. I wasn't very clear, in my writing. My apologies.
Originally Posted by Moga
That was my point. It's the basic distinction made by Ayoob and countless others, when they suggest that waiting until a criminal attacker actually comes through the barrier is safer, legally, and helps ensure a person is meeting the A.O.J. standard prior to unleashing death on their fears. This case of firing through the door early is a good example of how A.O.J. isn't yet met, and how a zealous DA can hang you by your toenails for it.
As it relates to Georgia law, banging on a person's wall is not a felony of any type, much less a forcible felony ...
A.O.J. The criminal in question had the ability to harm the occupants of the house, but he didn't yet have the opportunity because of proximity. By still being on the other side of a closed/locked door, the would-be felon was as of that moment unable to reach the occupants. As of that moment, as you say, there was no forcible felony. Forcible felony on a door is irrelevant. Forcible felony laws are there to protect persons, and prior to the door being broken down the occupants of the home were not yet threatened sufficiently to take life.
Holding themselves to the "higher" standard of waiting until the door was breached, the occupants could have (a) ensured they were not firing on someone else, (b) ensured they were not putting anyone else at immediate risk, and (c) were demanding the attacker breach the door and thereby cross over the line into the realm of forcible felony on persons.
Depends on the circumstances, you're right.
Originally Posted by Moga
If you want to ensure you're standing in the realm of the "higher" standard and doing everything you can to delay using deadly force, yes, you are supposed to wait until the standards are met before acting. Of course, the strength of the statutes in most states is that it allows the citizen in question to make a reasonable judgment at the critical moment as to whether it was justified or not, since obviously ONLY the citizen can know everything there is to know at that point as to whether the threat is deadly enough to respond to. Fact is, all a DA and investigating officers are doing is second-guessing anyway, since none of them were there.
If you are the person on the inside of the door, are you supposed to wait until the person makes entry to find out whether he intends to rape or kill you before you attempt to stop them?
Which is one of the reasons I'm so adamant about why strong "Castle" and "Stand Your Ground" laws are so important, including making the simple statement that a claimed justifiable self-defense use of lethal force should not in and of itself be cause to force the defender to justify the actions taken. I still believe that it's the citizen being put under the jeopardy of law, thus the STATE must (as in every other type of case) prove beyond a reasonable doubt the criminality of the person claiming self-defense and that the citizen's actions could not possibly have been justifiable self-defense. But, that's just me. I'm appalled that Oregon does not have such statutes on the books. It's one of the things that keeps me up at night, trying to help my legislature see the stupidity of such a thing, leaving citizens out to dry when it comes to self-defense actions against violent criminals.
Anyway. I think we're saying the same thing.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
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