Can't happen here, we live in a good gated community

[Bark'n]

"Those people" account for a large majority of America's population, and I tend to think it's modeled and taught.

I agree... and there really needs to be a "sarcasm" font as I was attempting some humor and sarcasm.

I believe the sheep have been "taught" to be sheep over at least a generation of far left liberal indoctrination at all levels of the public educational system. Especially when it comes to not accepting personal accountability and the first response to always attempt to assign blame elsewhere.

However, I didn't want to get into a political debate... I was just being a little sarcastic.

But as to your point, yes, I do agree.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[Janq]

CCW,

Production temperature and temperature as served are two completely different items.
A steak is grilled at a far higher temperature than it is served at and expected to be consumed.

The product serving temperature of the McDs coffee clearly was scalding and thus overly hot for handling and consumption.

- Janq

[ccw9mm]

CCW,

Production temperature and temperature as served are two completely different items.

The product serving temperature of the McDs coffee clearly was scalding and thus overly hot for handling and consumption.

With fresh-brewed coffee??

Coffee drinkers won't typically brook a delay between the brewing and the serving. At any fast-food type place, the consumer can see when the pot's done. Point is, before the last drip has dropped, the customer's cuppa is poured. That doesn't allow much time for the temps to go below the typical McD's brewing temp of ~185*F (already well below norms for decent coffee ... which could explain a lot).

Trouble is, EVERYWHERE the quick-pour method is done, the "solution" to the hot temperatures of the serving rests with the consumer. A "higher authority" need not confirm this one, as it's common sense. If we remove all other control points, then we're left with the last one, the customer. In short, Mr. Consumer: don't drink the damned thing until it's cool enough to drink. AKA, use your head. That's the way with all coffee that's brewed properly. In fact, using your head is required in order to survive, but she forgot that, this day.

Steak vs coffee?

Production of a steak can be 1-10mins prior to delivery to the customer's table in a restaurant, controlled by the chef. Hence the legally-fearful restaurateur can control delivery times, to lengthen them enough to where the risk of scalding by stupid customers is minimized, though that increases the risk of angering customers with tepid meat and congealing fat globs.

Coffee doesn't work that way. Fresh-brewed is the ticket, and at McD's once it's done dripping into the pot the cuppa is poured. Not the same as with steak or other items.

Anyway. Because of these factors, IMO, McD's did nothing wrong. But they get the butt end of the stick, 'cause it's litigious America and the time was ripe. It's not like there was a shortage of ambulance chasers.

We can tangle, we can spin. At the end of the day, it is what it is. The facts remain: McD's typical coffee brewing temps were below industry norms; this particular customer didn't do her part to ensure avoidance of scalding on a known-hot item; and, there was a long line of legal "eagles" just waiting for a juicy little public shellacking of a recognizable name.

BTW: I am not condoning the delivery of too-hot-to-drink coffee. I am also not condoning the live-with-eyes-closed method that granny used. I propose a middle ground, which is fair. The coffee shop can drop normal brewing temps from ~200*F to 185*F, and the customer can engage the brain and look before leaping (while deciding for him/herself where in the 140-175*F range he/she is comfortable drinking the steaming liquid). Perfectly, wonderfully fair, that. Of course, this takes common sense, and this is America we're speaking of, where it ain't so common as it once was. You'd think that sort of mutual, unspoken contract would be a fair one, breached as it was by granny, as she didn't perform her part. Thus, McD's was probably more justified in suing her based on failure to engage the brain, than she'd ever be with claiming any failure on the store's part.

[InspectorGadget]

I cant help but think "Hot Coffee is Hot"

I want to apologize to DaveH for derailing his conversation on Gated Communities and silly lawsuits with a conversation about coffee. I was thinking more about the silly warnings about things you should already know. He may want to look at the little Disclaimer Sticker on the bottom of his gate saying that the Gate does not prevent crime or bodily injury, I wonder if one is on his gate now?

[cwblanco]

Gated communitys make it safer for the criminal,because everyone thinks that it cant happen there and they dont have the mindset to deal with it.

What kind of gated community do you live in anyway? Virtually all of our gated community residents are armed several times over -- enough to cover a mini-invasion.

[cwblanco]

I cant help but think "Hot Coffee is Hot"

Yep. I once tried one of those awful hot coffee cases. The cheap cup (half the thiickness of normal cups) crumbled in the waitresses hands, the coffee ran down the man's boot, burned his foot badley, and he had to have skin grafts off of his butt.

Now what were we talking about -- Oh yes, negligent home owners associations allowing the bad guys to gain entrance. Many folks are overlooking the fact that high end homeowners associations are likely to have an abundance of members who have multiple alarms, and are armed like an army, and that an invader will be lucky to leave in one piece. You might compare them to high end bubba villages.

[llongshot]

Regardless of the situation (you paid for fries and they weren't in the sack when you got home) you and I expect to get what we pay for as advertised. If it doesn't happen (missing fries or gated community with no gate) we want to be made whole. If this guy had gotten what he was promised and got mugged in his home because he was a wuss he needs to suck it up. If he didn't get what he was promised (and apparently he didn't) he deserves compensation. If for no other reason to demonstrate to those who make a living offering services they don't intend to provide that there are penalties (Bernie Madeoff (no pun intended) comes to mind). If you contracted a company to roof your home and they only did three quarters wouldn't you want some sort of reconcilliation? If they decided to ignore your request to provide the service offered would you take action. Folks, there are people out there sueing anyone and everyone they can to avoid actually having to earn an honest living. Guess what? There are companies out there offering services they know darn well they're not going to provide for the same reason.

[64zebra]

What kind of gated community do you live in anyway? Virtually all of our gated community residents are armed several times over -- enough to cover a mini-invasion.

hmmm, I've never got that feeling when on calls in them

[ccw9mm]

I want to apologize to DaveH for derailing his conversation on Gated Communities and silly lawsuits with a conversation about coffee.

Both expectations (gates, coffee) as to validity of lawsuits are equally ludicrous for a consumer to believe as panaceas. IMO, it wasn't a derailment; it was a detailing of just how silly the claims were by comparing them with a fairly good analogy. To those who don't see it and feel it was a bad thing, my apologies. But the remarks about the silliness of having gone so far into coffee bring home the point: it's that bad, the feeling that a gate = security.

[DaveH]

...
Many folks are overlooking the fact that "high end" homeowners associations are likely to have an abundance of members who have multiple alarms, and are armed like an army, and that an invader will be lucky to leave in one piece. You might compare them to high end bubba villages.

Depends on where you are, IMHO.

That's what I'd expect in Texas.

OTOH, in some States, which I have visited/lived in, the high end homeowners in gated communities and other "up-scale" neighborhoods are very anti-RKBA. True, some did tend to have up-scale alarms but for the most part they were white-zone , only arming the alarms when away or going to bed.

Some of the highest income areas (see: CNN/Money: Highest income zip codes) in the country are very anti-RKBA -- No. 1 is zip code 60043 in Kenilworth, Illinois, (82.92% of six-figure income earners) and most are posh suburbs in the Northeast.

As always, YMMV

[HotGuns]

What kind of gated community do you live in anyway? Virtually all of our gated community residents are armed several times over -- enough to cover a mini-invasion.

I don't live in a community. I live out in the sticks. The only neighbors I have are animals.The only gates around here are cattle gates. Other than coyotes howling,crows yacking,hawks screaming, and an occasional moo,its nice and quiet like.

I do respond to the only gated community in this area. Most of the people there are overeducated yuppies and soccer moms that live in a fantasy land. Bad things cant happen there, because, hey, we live in a gated community and and the houses are expensive. Most of the people there have some serious arsenals of golf clubs and the only thing that they stock is in the cupboard at the bar.

I've heard it all before and had some lengthy converstations with some of those that live there when taking various reports. I must admit, it can be rather amusing.

There may be a few people in there with a clue. When the SHTF, they'll be fighting off their clueless neighbors.

[JOHNSMITH]

I think the development should really maintain their gate (lots of gated communities often have broken gates, due mostly to people who "push" the gate with their car or otherwise gently bump it, which will usually auto shut down the gate), because the people inside pay for it.

However, the actual basis of his lawsuit is silly. How about he sue the manufacturer of his door locks? The door itself? What about the guy who poured his concrete sidewalk. Maybe if there was no sidewalk, the bad guys would've never gotten to his door!

"Aww man, I don't want to walk across this guy's lawn and mess it up, that'd be mean... come on, let's go somewhere else and shoot the guy for no reason"

[ccw9mm]

However, the actual basis of his lawsuit is silly.

Yup.

There's a reason why castle walls were made 50ft high. Why? Because a 1ft wall would only serve notice that something inside was deemed valuable from seizure.

There's a reason why castle moats were made more than 5ft across. Why? Because anything less than 30ft with high banks wouldn't provide any sort of actual, physical deterrence at all.

There's a reason why a secure compound has armed guards. Why? Because no amount of fencing, walls, photos being taken, nor fancy alarm systems are going to catch everything at all times. Because a determined criminal is going to get past an unprotected hurdle, when only the hurdle is laying there.

Lacking a hired force of armed guards, wouldn't it be reasonable to assume that one must be one's own armed guard instead? Sure. That's the point that Mr. Blame Others fails to understand. Though, his jury of "peers" is likely going to understand his point of view and see that as justification for a ludicrous penalty of blame against the defendants in the case. Ridiculous in all ways. The citizen owed it to himself to protect himself. Layers matter. Any one layer can fail, or be out for awhile, or not end up being the deterrent one assumes it will be. Duh.

[cwblanco]

hmmm, I've never got that feeling when on calls in them

That's because we are not in your jurisdiction, and have a 24/7 gate guard. The other access is to climb down a canyon wall at our shooting range.

[cwblanco]

I don't live in a community. I live out in the sticks. The only neighbors I have are animals.The only gates around here are cattle gates. Other than coyotes howling,crows yacking,hawks screaming, and an occasional moo,its nice and quiet like.

Yes, the coyotes howling from the upper bluffs create music to sleep by. We do not kill off our coyotes because they help control the excess number of deer which are always in the way.

I do respond to the only gated community in this area. Most of the people there are overeducated yuppies and soccer moms that live in a fantasy land. Bad things can't happen there, because, hey, we live in a gated community and and the houses are expensive.

Yep, we have our share of overeducated folks, such as surgeons, enginers, chemists, and retired military (probably at your expense while they were on active duty).

As far as soccer moms, no one seems to want to live here until the kids are grown.

Most of the people there have some serious arsenals of golf clubs and the only thing that they stock is in the cupboard at the bar.

Most of our gated folks, including wives, have CHL permits and serious arsenals of all kinds of guns and ammo. When ammo gets too scare, we sometimes have to resort to those lowly golf games. Otherwise, it is mandatory shooting range fix up duty.

I must admit, it can be rather amusing.

You certainly have that correct.

There may be a few people in there with a clue. When the SHTF, they'll be fighting off their clueless neighbors.

I think that we will be able hold off those clueless sheep outside of the gate and cliff walls until the storm subsides. Of course the long range semi-auto rifles do seem to present an advantage. On the other hand, if you are talking about a major nuclear winter, I don't think that there will be anyone around to worry about.