Cops Episode - CCW Holder Shoots Attacker, Gets Arrested

This is a discussion on Cops Episode - CCW Holder Shoots Attacker, Gets Arrested within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; He wasn't shot for trespassing. He was shot because the guy was pummeling him and wouldn't stop. I suspect that most here would not allow ...

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Thread: Cops Episode - CCW Holder Shoots Attacker, Gets Arrested

  1. #16
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    He wasn't shot for trespassing. He was shot because the guy was pummeling him and wouldn't stop.

    I suspect that most here would not allow themselves to take an ass-whooping in their own home.

    Trespassing is not the issue here. Assault is.

    The guy that got shot was stupid enough to continue when the gun was presented to him and as a result of his stupidity...he got shot.



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  3. #17
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    He wasn't shot for trespassing. He was shot because the guy was pummeling him and wouldn't stop.

    I suspect that most here would not allow themselves to take an ass-whooping in their own home.

    Trespassing is not the issue here. Assault is.

    The guy that got shot was stupid enough to continue when the gun was presented to him and as a result of his stupidity...he got shot.



    No tears from me.
    +1 None from me either.
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  4. #18
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    It was kind of funny when the cops goes "what happened when you shot him" and the guy replied "I stopped getting punched in the face". Good answer - lol.

  5. #19
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    He wasn't shot for trespassing. He was shot because the guy was pummeling him and wouldn't stop.

    I suspect that most here would not allow themselves to take an ass-whooping in their own home.

    Trespassing is not the issue here. Assault is.

    The guy that got shot was stupid enough to continue when the gun was presented to him and as a result of his stupidity...he got shot.



    No tears from me.
    I saw that episode as well. First, I am not an attorney and my opinion is only that, my opinion. It should not be construed as legal advice or legal authority.

    HotGun's point is on target here. The main issue isn't merely trespassing. The main issue here, as I see it is assault! Trespassing is still a consideration and would be an open charge which could and should be made in addition to the assault which occurred.

    The question is, should a man be charged for defending himself with a firearm while inside his own home. The ccw permit doesn't play a role in this case as the incident took place within his home/castle and not out on the street.

    At issue here is, does one have the duty to continue to be assaulted in their own home by a person 1/2 their age who is clearly larger and presumed to be stronger, or are you allowed to defend yourself within the confines of you home/castle when under assault?

    What needs to be evaluated are the mitigating or aggravating circumstances of the incident.

    A) Did the homeowner have the right or authority to ask the people to leave his home? (yes! When the assailants became angry and confrontational to the homeowner, he certainly has the right to demand they leave his home/castle. Refusal to leave at that point becomes a matter of trespassing and now is an aggravating factor against the assailants and a mitigating factor for the homeowner)

    B) Alcohol consumption? (In regards to the assailants, alcohol consumption certainly becomes an aggravating factor regarding their actions and assault on the homeowner. In regards to the homeowner, can alcohol play a roll in his decision making process? Yes, possible an aggravating factor. Does alcohol consumption mean he loses his right to defend himself in his own home? No, it does not! He was not out in public carrying his gun while intoxicated therefore, it should not be considered as an aggravating factor in that regard.)

    C) Disparity of force? (In regards to disparity of force, If the homeowner can successfully articulate that in his mind, there were force of numbers, two against one, who were 1/2 his age, and in better physical health and strength, and where the aggressor failed to stop assaulting him he became fearful of serious injury, it could become a mitigating factor in him needing to shoot in order to defend himself)

    D) Your home is your castle? (should be a mitigating factor on the side of the homeowner. It's his home, he was being assaulted by trespassers who refused to leave and was afraid of serious if not permanent injury)

    Now, how is all of this going to play out? I have no idea!

    I feel the homeowner who shot the guy talked way too much to the police without his attorney present. On it's surface, it appeared the LEO was adversarial on their interaction with him. And I'm not disagreeing with their position either. Nor am I agreeing with it. They are there trying to process a crime scene and are doing so based in no small part, on their past experience in these situations as well as the physical evidence and evidence based on statements by the parties involved and other witnesses.

    Yes, an arrest was made by the responding patrol officers. However, we have no idea if charges were even filed in the case.

    After he was arrested and taken to the station, he would in fact have been interviewed and investigated by detectives, whose job is to determine if charges should in fact be formally leveled against him. The detectives may or may not consult with the prosecuting attorney who would also have a role to play as to whether charges were filed. It was merely the job of the patrol officers to detain and bring the suspect to the detectives for further investigation which is also based in part on the patrol officers report.

    So, while he was arrested, we have no idea if charges were even filed. He may very well have been released from the police station with no charges being filed after being interviewed by the detectives and the case presented to the prosecutor.

    The TV show COPS is strictly an entertainment vehicle and what is broadcast on TV after final editing is merely a snippet of actually transpired that evening, and we would be hard pressed to make an educated decision based on what is seen in the final TV broadcast.

    I think it dangerous to base your actions regarding use of lethal force based on what we see on TV in general and the show COPS specifically.

    Just my two cents based on my Monday morning quarterbacking of an incident with an incomplete knowledge of the facts.
    -Bark'n
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  6. #20
    Senior Member Array TheShadow's Avatar
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    I also saw it...

    I know this has no legal ramification but wasn't there a girlfriend of the "victim" there also?
    Alcohol + Someones Girl + Jealousy + Firearm = BigTrouble
    “Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor

  7. #21
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    Fantastic factual reply by Bark'n.

  8. #22
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    drinking shooter in las vegas

    some of the leo here in vegas have a them and us mentality so talking to them is hard to do but there are some who are understanding and actually listen, go figure.
    that said the shooter was in the wrong if he was drinking and carrying in his own house or outside. i dont know about others but my brain doesnt work well when mixed with alcohol besides 911 does work here

  9. #23
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    Quote Originally Posted by driverdon View Post
    that said the shooter was in the wrong if he was drinking and carrying in his own house or outside. i dont know about others but my brain doesnt work well when mixed with alcohol besides 911 does work here
    Lets suppose you have the guys over for a BBQ and to watch the football game Sunday afternoon and during the course of the day, you have 6 or 8 beers.

    A few hours later, the party is over, you clean up and are sitting down watching the news trying to get the scores from the other games of the day before going to bed.

    All of a sudden two guys kick in your front door with fixed blade hunting knives. One guy pops your wife in the face and slaps her down because she happened to be close to the front door when they kicked it in. One guy says, holy crap that chick is fine looking... I know what I'm going to do when we're done.

    Your pistol is about 1 foot away and you say...? Sorry honey, I've had 8 beers already and therefore I have relinquished my right to use a firearm to defend your life and mine inside our own home?

    Wow. Sucks to be your wife there doesn't it?

    I have some news for you... the law says you have the right to use lethal force if you are in immediate and otherwise unavoidable fear of death or serious crippling injury. It does not say you have that right only if you haven't been drinking!

    Now there are laws which govern the consumption of alcohol and carrying your gun in public, however inside your own home is not part of those laws.

    Now, you may have some explaining to do, if you've been drinking. And you better be certain, and utilizing the reasonable man standard, that you can articulate that you were in fact in immediate and otherwise unavoidable threat of death or serious crippling injury. And if the reasonable man concurs that you were in fact facing a lethal threat, then you must be acquitted.

    The problem is where people who have been drinking, in fact, don't face a truly justifiable self defense situation. But you don't relinquish your right to self defense, and your right to use lethal force to defend yourself just because you've been drinking. You just better be right, or you may find yourself being held accountable.

    Just my humble opinion here.
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  10. #24
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    As usual, a most outstanding reply.

  11. #25
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    I agree with you Bark'n. I think it's helpful for those who don't drink to know something about behavior under alcohol: cognitive reasoning and reaction time are diminished, they are not eliminated. Unless you have been drinking to the stupid drunk phase (past the comfortable, buzzed phase and well beyond hangover land into imminent peril of puking - if you are not accustomed to alcohol consumption YMMV.) you should be able to articulate reasonable fear of death or great bodily harm. Alcohol is a mood enhancer. If you are in a welcoming, comfortable atmosphere, the alcohol will increase your feeling of well-being which is why people become chatty when they've been drinking. If something turns sour, they'll be able to pretty much turn it off although their speed and coordination will suffer.

    An aside: People who become belligerent pricks every time they drink are really like that anyway, they just mask it well when they are sober.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  12. #26
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    Quote Originally Posted by quantum36 View Post
    I saw that episode too.
    I was angry at the "officer's" question also.

    He was arrested, nonetheless, and charged with the shooting, and will go to trial.
    OK, fact is it's normal for the cops to ask questions. Maybe they weren't the best questions but his answers definitley were not good answers.

    What was really irritating is the ignorant cops:
    Cop: "Why were you carrying a gun?"
    guy: "I have a permit to do so."
    Cop: Okay, but why were you carrying a gun?"
    guy: "I always carry my gun. I have a permit to do so."
    Cop: So you were expecting trouble? Thought you might get into a fight...



    I carry a 'gun' for self defense, for protection, for threats to my life, etc. I don't carry a gun just because 'I have a permit to do so'. Definitely not a good answer in a serious situation. He'd been better off to keep his mouth shut than to say what he said.
    "The price of freedom is eternal vigilance." -Thomas Jefferson

    "Liberalism is a Mental Disorder." -Michael Savage

    GOOD Gun Control is being able to hit your target! -Myself

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