Bad: Couple Gunned Down at Dinner AZ

Bad: Couple Gunned Down at Dinner AZ

This is a discussion on Bad: Couple Gunned Down at Dinner AZ within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Couple Gunned Down at Dinner, Man Killed SURPRISE, Ariz. - A man is dead after a shooting in a Chili's parking lot Wednesday night. Surprise ...

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Thread: Bad: Couple Gunned Down at Dinner AZ

  1. #1
    Member Array nova83tx's Avatar
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    Bad: Couple Gunned Down at Dinner AZ

    Couple Gunned Down at Dinner, Man Killed

    SURPRISE, Ariz. - A man is dead after a shooting in a Chili's parking lot Wednesday night.

    Surprise Police say a husband and wife had just finished eating and got into their car, when two Hispanic males approached their car.

    After a brief argument, the men opened the driver's door and shot the man.

    He was killed. The men took off in a green 4-door sedan.

    The victim's name has not been released. Police are still looking for the suspects.
    This is always my worst fear: come out from dinner, shopping, whatever . . . and you have someone mark and follow you to your car.

    I am completely vigilant, every time I head back to the car, almost to the point of paranoia!

    Let's hope the cops find the suspects.
    Glock 26 w/ CTAC IWB

    "Speak softly and carry a big stick; you will go far" - Theodore Roosevelt


  2. #2
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    when two [men] approached their car ... brief argument ... opened the driver's door and shot the man.
    Ba-da-bing. Just that quickly, he's dead as nits.

    And that, shoppers, is why I keep my eye on EVERYONE approaching within 50yds of me that I can see, and keep a specific eye on multiples, on anyone with a particular urgency/attentiveness in the look or walk, or anyone who seems specifically focused on me.

    I caught a pair doing the two-man-mugging thing with me as their focus, some years ago, and convinced them to go elsewhere by drawing on the lead attacker. I hope to never be in that situation again. But, as the article shows, it can happen instantly, without warning, coming out of a restaurant, or entering your car, or whatever.

    SURPRISE, Ariz.
    Yup. Surprise! Our goal is to avoid just that.

    Anytime. Anywhere. Go armed ... period.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  3. #3
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    Array Bark'n's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nova83tx
    Couple Gunned Down at Dinner, Man Killed

    SURPRISE, Ariz. - A man is dead after a shooting in a Chili's parking lot Wednesday night.

    Surprise Police say a husband and wife had just finished eating and got into their car, when two Hispanic males approached their car.

    After a brief argument, the men opened the driver's door and shot the man.

    He was killed. The men took off in a green 4-door sedan.

    The victim's name has not been released. Police are still looking for the suspects.
    This is always my worst fear: come out from dinner, shopping, whatever . . . and you have someone mark and follow you to your car.

    I am completely vigilant, every time I head back to the car, almost to the point of paranoia!

    Let's hope the cops find the suspects.
    You can't compare yourself to that victim. It would be way out of context.

    You are a ccw permit holder who practices good situational awareness and constantly strategize in order to overcome various scenarios.

    The victim in this case... I will go out on a limb and say that he was not a ccw holder, and therefore, probably had the situational awareness of a sheep. Even if he saw it coming, I would venture to say that he had no plan to deal with it.

    Remember, predators pick their victims very carefully. Like a lion looking for the antelope who has a limp or is off by itself, human predators utilize the same hunting behavior. They want a victim who will not fight back or offer resistance.

    So, even if you don't see them, but they see you... they are observing that you are looking around, surveying the scene, walking to your car with a sense of purpose and are not distracted.

    So, more then likely, you will never have to worry about becoming the victim in which this poor soul was.
    -Bark'n
    Semper Fi


    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  4. #4
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post

    Remember, predators pick their victims very carefully. Like a lion looking for the antelope who has a limp or is off by itself, human predators utilize the same hunting behavior. They want a victim who will not fight back or offer resistance.
    Words of wisdom here.

    When a predator selects the "wrong" victim, and the tables get turned, we call that, "An acute failure of the victim selection process."

    Biker

  5. #5
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    The victim in this case... I will go out on a limb and say that he was not a ccw holder, and therefore, probably had the situational awareness of a sheep. Even if he saw it coming, I would venture to say that he had no plan to deal with it.
    Bark'n, I think you're right on the mark, on this one.

    While it's no guarantee, pre-planning, training on managing dynamic situations such as this, and excellent situational awareness can go a long way toward helping a person mount a response when things decide to fall apart right in front of you.

    Data Point:

    More than 10yrs ago, I had two felons execute a coordinated mugging of me in a dark parking lot, one night. In short, I refused at the point of my gun.

    But, I had been carrying a couple of years, had trained incessantly at that time in order to erase 20yrs of sheep-dip that still clung to the recesses of my brain.

    I had parked about ~80yds from the door of a Safeway grocery store, and was walking along the left line of cars in an aisle toward the entrance. As I walked, to my right I noticed a pair of guys in their ~late 20's to mid-30's about three aisles away. I'll name them BG #1 (the leader) and BG #2. At this point, BG #2 "waved good-bye" and headed off to my right, behind me, though still ~3 aisles away. I thought nothing more of this for few seconds, continuing my scan of the parking lot.

    When I next picked up both of them, BG #2 had swung behind me along my same aisle and had veered straight for me. He was now about ~40ft away. BG #1 was now coming straight for me across my aisle and would pop out from his line of cars in about ~5 seconds. Well, at that instant, it was patently clear that these two people were executing a coordinated attack on me, far enough from the entrance to the store that the attack wouldn't be seen or heard.

    At that instant, I ducked in between two cars on my immediate left, drew my revolver (a S&W Airweight 442 .38), then demanded they both re-think their actions else face a bad time.

    Both of the felons immediately raised up, apparently briefly shocked that I was armed, and both immediately turned away and faded into the darkness.

    I was able to duck quickly into the store without having been mugged. But that was by design. My design. I had been through this many times, in my mind and my training, formulating a basic plan of how to resist a two-on-one attack against me where I had some time to allow drawing of my firearm.

    Had I NOT been armed, had I NOT already thought through this type of situation a thousand times, and had I not already trained for this type of two-person situation, I would not have been nearly so convincing as I must have seemed that night.

    That night, each of the two felons thought I was "food." But I turned out to be a big steaming plate of indigestion for both of them ... and they didn't want any of it. I might well not have survived the attack, since I have no idea if they had firearms or knives. But one or both of them would have required help from the scene of their attack on me ... I had apparently assured them of that.

    Kudos to me for having planned out some simple scenarios and basic responses. Kudos to my trainers for helping me work through the necessary basic minimums required in order to quickly respond and still keep my head.

    I don't ever want to go through that type of situation, again. Though, it's highly likely that I might, at some point, the way things are going in this country. But I am about as ready as I am going to be. I think these things through, I try to maintain high awareness of my surroundings, and I do NOT go unarmed.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  6. #6
    Member Array GlockGal's Avatar
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    ICK! My little brother lives in Surprise, AZ. I'm sure glad his trusty Glock 36 never leaves his side.

  7. #7
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    Chili's parking lot
    Has the law changed in AZ yet? Because under AZ law it was not legal to carry in any establishment that served alchohol. Know it was going to change just wandering if it already happened?
    "Those who would give up essential liberties for a little temporary safety deserve neither liberty or safety" -Benjamin Franklin-
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  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jeff F View Post
    Has the law changed in AZ yet? Because under AZ law it was not legal to carry in any establishment that served alchohol. Know it was going to change just wandering if it already happened?
    Concealed carry in places serving alcohol will become legal in AZ on Sept. 29. Signs prohibiting firearms will have to be prominently posted to that effect near the entrance.
    Smitty
    NRA Endowment Member

  9. #9
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    This is the very problem with places that require you to disarm..the parking lot is a dangerous place.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    This is why when you are headed to your car day or night but especially by night!, that you do not dawddle.

    Just go to your car, get in it...LOCK THE DOORS BEHIND YOU!!!!!!!1...Belt up, start the car, and _leave_!

    Don't sit in the car with the door half open digging around in the glove compartment or your purse.
    Don't get in the car and then sit there talking on your cell...Doors unlocked totally oblivious to life around you.
    Don't get in the car and sit there to have a post event conversation with your riding partner as in the parking lot with doors unlocked.

    Get in the car, lock the doors, and get going. Period.
    Oh and start the car too. Don't sit there engine off...As in the event your doors are closed and locked but you need to drive/reverse out of harms way _immediately_. As was the case here.

    Lastly, do not argue with anyone...especially not STRANGERS!...in parking lots.
    Just drive away. Period.

    Largely avoidable. :|
    Very much regrettable. :(

    Now his wife is alone, mentally and emotionally scarred, and is left a widow.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  11. #11
    Member Array i10casual's Avatar
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    That is horrible. My speculation is that it was just a gang initiation. They have to kill someone. I hate gangs and the whole culture.

  12. #12
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Both of the felons immediately raised up, apparently briefly shocked that I was armed, and both immediately turned away and faded into the darkness.
    Good for you!
    Just a question. With all the posting about .380's being underpowered, did the bad guys ask what caliber you were aiming at them? No. I didn't think so.
    I contend, when the shooting starts, there isn't a bit of difference between a 9mm. and a .380. People will be running.

    (It's different for LEO's, they will be running after them, I won't)

  13. #13
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Good for you!
    Just a question. With all the posting about .380's being underpowered, did the bad guys ask what caliber you were aiming at them? No. I didn't think so.

    I contend, when the shooting starts, there isn't a bit of difference between a 9mm. and a .380. People will be running.
    I agree with you.

    I had a .38sp revolver, puny that it was. Nobody stopped to ask the caliber. I believe that what made the difference was my absolute resolve to refuse to be taken toes-up. They ejected immediately after seeing that.

    At best, they saw: revolver. I'm sure it didn't occur to them that I had less than 300 ft-lbs of muzzle energy and only 5rds in the cylinder.

    Though, it surely occurred to me. I soon thereafter changed my daily carry from a 5rd revolver to a 10rd+ semi-auto 9mm, for the rounds.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  14. #14
    VIP Member
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    You can't compare yourself to that victim. It would be way out of context.

    You are a ccw permit holder who practices good situational awareness and constantly strategize in order to overcome various scenarios.

    The victim in this case... I will go out on a limb and say that he was not a ccw holder, and therefore, probably had the situational awareness of a sheep. Even if he saw it coming, I would venture to say that he had no plan to deal with it.

    Remember, predators pick their victims very carefully. Like a lion looking for the antelope who has a limp or is off by itself, human predators utilize the same hunting behavior. They want a victim who will not fight back or offer resistance.

    So, even if you don't see them, but they see you... they are observing that you are looking around, surveying the scene, walking to your car with a sense of purpose and are not distracted.

    So, more then likely, you will never have to worry about becoming the victim in which this poor soul was.
    +1!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

    "A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
    judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
    superior skills."

  15. #15
    Member Array Backroad's Avatar
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    Just on the surface, this might have been perpetrated by someone who was dissatisfied with the drugs they bought.....

    al
    "gettin' there is half the fun."

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