gun carrier 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault

This is a discussion on gun carrier 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; October 21, 2009 by Personal Liberty News Desk Researchers from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine have found that guns did not appear to ...

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Thread: gun carrier 4.5 times more likely to be shot in an assault

  1. #46
    VIP Member Array ExSoldier's Avatar
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    Exclamation New Study Suggests Gun Possession May Not Protect Against Assault

    October 21, 2009 by Personal Liberty News Desk

    Researchers from the University of Pennsylvania School of Medicine have found that guns did not appear to protect those who possessed them from being shot in an assault.

    The study, which is scheduled to be published in November in the American Journal of Public Health, relied on the review of 677 randomly selected cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006. The researchers found that 6 percent of victims in these cases were in possession of a gun (such as in a holster, pocket, waistband, or vehicle) when they were shot.

    "This study should be the beginning of a better investment in gun injury research through various government and private agencies such as the Centers for Disease Control," says Charles C. Branas, associate professor of epidemiology at the school.

    He adds that in the past such agencies have not been legally allowed to fund studies which would affect the passage of specific legislation intended to restrict access to firearms.

    Similar studies, however, are unlikely to affect the mission of organizations which claim that access to arms is a constitutional right of every American.

    Recently, the Second Amendment Foundation has announced it will be joining in a federal lawsuit to validate the principles and terms of the Montana Firearms Freedom Act, which took effect on Oct. 1.

    The act declares that any firearms made and retained in Montana are not subject to any federal authority under the power given to Congress in the U.S. Constitution to regulate commerce among states.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

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  3. #47
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    Notice the study happens in Philadelphia, which is not exactly a gun mecca, so to speak. The response has to be: "WELL DUH! If you buy a gun for self defense then go no further (training, practice, etc) of COURSE you're going to freeze and or fail when your moment of truth appears.
    Former Army Infantry Captain; 25 yrs as an NRA Certified Instructor; Avid practitioner of the martial art: KLIK-PAO.

  4. #48
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    A gun is not body armor and bullets do not stop bullets. Being shot most of the time in the hands of the other fellow. Being able to stop the other fellow would add up in this study which makes this study totally worthless.

  5. #49
    VIP Member Array NC Bullseye's Avatar
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    Darn those 94% that WEREN'T shot while they had an encounter while carrying.

  6. #50
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    already flogged this one sufficently

    "Study" was already discussed and cussed almost 2 weeks ago... can we get a moderator to merge these?

    http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...t-assault.html
    Smitty
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  7. #51
    Member Array xrmeav8r's Avatar
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    I think it is more like 94% were shot BECAUSE they weren't carrying a firearm!

  8. #52
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    I don't think guns protect you from falling pianos either.

    No, simply possessing a gun doesn't do anything unless you are trained in how to use it and willing to use it as has been already said... what a waste of money "gun studies" by anti gunners is!
    ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!

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  9. #53
    VIP Member Array farronwolf's Avatar
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    From the initial sound of it, they are including both folks that were doing illegal activities and the common legal carrier.

    So if most of the folks getting shot that have a gun are gang bangers, or are doing things that are generally bad for ones health and illegal the study would be skewed.

    The study probably didn't look at folks that weren't shot because they had a gun either.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  10. #54
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    farronwolf, you're exactly right I think. If you take a random sample of individuals taken to Baltimore emergency rooms with gunshot wounds, I'd dare say the vast preponderance of those "victims" were criminally-minded people shot by other criminals. If gangbanger X assaults gangbanger Y with handgun, he's going to shoot him regardless of whether Y has a gun or not.

    I'd like to see the data on legal carriers assaulted in areas not known for high-crime, why those carriers were chosen for assault, and how the assault ended. Criminal on criminal crime studies are not very relevant to us.

  11. #55
    VIP Member Array JoJoGunn's Avatar
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    It's a pointless and useless argument when anti-gun people are involved. They are convinced of their stand on guns no matter what statistics prove otherwise. It's just that utopian thinking that if something is eliminated then somehow magically the possibility of it hurting anyone is gone.

    Like the argument that people get hurt & killed in automobile accidents, yet we produce, sell and use them way more than firearms and nobody has come forth to challenge the car manufacturers in producing a deadly product. It's that mentality of taking one object and ignoring other dangerous ones because of an agenda.

    Once and anti always and anti.
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  12. #56
    Distinguished Member Array phreddy's Avatar
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    Bad logic. You can't draw that conclusion from the sample they chose. In order to draw their conclusion, the sample would have to include include people who were not shot also.

  13. #57
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    Somebody pass the salt...... For me, that's about all this studies worth.
    "He that hath no sword, let him sell his garment, and buy one." Luke 22:36

    "If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

  14. #58
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    This will not end up in the report:

    In out little town we had a home invasion and attempted rape of a elderly near 80 year old lady who lives alone. Phone line was cut and entry made through window. She awoke and got her gun to check out noise, the man grabbed her and told her to be quite and other sorted details. She told him she had a gun and started to shoot him in hand as his hands were around her waist from behind. The gun snapped and he ran, the gun snapped twice more as he reached the door. She followed him out door and this time the gun went off but she missed. Her gun sure protected her even if it did not go off.

    I have posted about this on other threads, the info in a new case sometimes get mixed up as to how many shoots etc. This is the last report I have received and probable the most accurate. At any rate without her gun events would have turned out totally different.

  15. #59
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    Problem with that case Searcher is that as the revolver either misfired or had too little ammo which directly resulted in no one being physically injured with the gun, then that incident does not get reported in any database as being a gun crime and the use of a gun to save herself does not go down as same either because no round hit a BG target.

    Seriously.

    The Brady people as well as the CDC both would not count the account as you related it for this reason.
    But, when they go to 'research' so called 'data' guess what they do count?

    Uh huh.

    So yet another very good reason why if anyone is going to keep a firearm in their home for SD/HD purposes that they invest in a _reliable_ & _combat functional_ gun, and one that has a full magazine/cylinder of ammo as to a power level that they individually can reliably with accuracy not just fire but HIT a target with.

    I'm with you though, if I make gun fingers with hand hidden in a coat pocket or inside a paper bag and that results in active threats running _away from me/mine_ then well a 'gun' surely did good and saved multiple lives. Period.

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  16. #60
    Senior Member Array rolyat63's Avatar
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    The study..
    ...relied on the review of 677 randomly selected cases of Philadelphia residents who were shot in an assault from 2003 to 2006.
    Is it just me or would it make sense to rely on a group of SD gun toters that were the victims (or potential victims) of crime... It just seems statistically flawed to go to Philly and round up 677 victims and see if any had guns of which 6% did but what was the point of their gun? Were they trained? Was SD their primary motive.

    Statisctics don't lie, omly liars use statistice.
    Theres Lies, dam lies and then theres statistics.
    rolyat63
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