3 Year Old Girl accidently killed by neighbor

This is a discussion on 3 Year Old Girl accidently killed by neighbor within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Sad story. St. Louis news said bullet went over 360 yards. I'm just wondering how high in the air the guy was "target shooting". This ...

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Thread: 3 Year Old Girl accidently killed by neighbor

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    Member Array Ghuqu2's Avatar
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    3 Year Old Girl accidently killed by neighbor

    Sad story. St. Louis news said bullet went over 360 yards. I'm just wondering how high in the air the guy was "target shooting". This is why Rule #4 was written.

    Gasconade County Republican - UPDATE: Accidental shooting takes life of 3-year-old

    UPDATE: Allison M. Schnider passed away Tuesday afternoon.

    Sheriff’s investigators believe a stray .9 mm round fired early Monday afternoon toward a target, from beside a residence along Route EE south of town, critically injured a rural Owensville girl in the head.Image


    Allison M. Schneider, 3-years-old, was walking in a farm yard approximately 366 yards north of where investigators believe the shot originated from when she was struck in the left temple by a projectile, said Sheriff Randy Esphorst. The youngster was flown from the scene by ARCH helicopter ambulance service to a hospital in St. Louis.

    Esphorst said X-rays showed the projectile was still in the girl’s head.

    Esphorst, Major Paul Owensby, Det. Matt Lindemeyer, and several Gasconade County Sheriff’s deputies were conducting their investigation at the residence where the girl was shot and south of there at a neighbor’s residence.

    “We’ve got some more investigating to do yet,” said Esphorst later on Monday afternoon.

    He said the scenario of the neighbor firing a round which struck the girl was “a good probability. We’re canvassing other places in the neighborhood just to make sure no one else was out shooting at that time. We’re probably right about this but we’ve got to make sure.”

    Esphorst said the neighbor was cooperating with the investigation and has surrendered a .9 mm handgun and a rifle. The handgun had been fired but the rifle had not, the sheriff said.
    "The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us." Patrick Henry 1775

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  3. #2
    VIP Member Array JonInNY's Avatar
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    Very tragic. My prayers go out to the families.
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghuqu2 View Post
    Sad story. St. Louis news said bullet went over 360 yards. I'm just wondering how high in the air the guy was "target shooting". This is why Rule #4 was written.
    He didn't have to be shooting high at all... but no good backstop and didn't understand how far a bullet will travel. There has been several cases of people a mile away being hit by a bullet where someone was "target shooting". Some people just don't realize.... 1 mile = 1780 yrds (.22 cal) , 5 miles = 8800 yds. and so figure it out, 360 is nothing.

    To demonstrate to my grandkids, I literally maked a spot and then drove the distance that bullet could effectively travel. Their first comment "are you serious ? ". Yes, I was. They "got it" and take it quite seriously now.

    It's a real shame, this guy learned it thru the loss of a little girl's life.
    That sure wasn't fair to her or her family.

    Prayers go to the girl's family.

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    Senior Member Array digitalexplr's Avatar
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    This was really a freaky accident. I know the area. The local news did a good job showing the terrain between the properties. Lot of trees between the shooter and the girl. It remains to be shown conclusively the the individual who they are currently looking did in fact fire the fateful bullet.
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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    First and foremost, prayers to the little girl and her family.

    No mention of the load, so it's hard to be exact but it would take a fairly steep trajectory to hit a target at 360 yards with a 9mm. Using data from a Federal load for a 124 gr. at 1150 fps, here's a trajectory chart.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    since they have his gun and a projectile in the victim,ballistics will be able to confirm if it's his gun,as long as the round is relatively intact
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    Interesting even at 370 yards it still is traveling at 740fps, more than enough to cause a fatal injury. Prayers to the family.
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    Member Array Ghuqu2's Avatar
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    update

    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    since they have his gun and a projectile in the victim,ballistics will be able to confirm if it's his gun,as long as the round is relatively intact
    We have friends close to the family and they report that the hospital will harvest organs tonight and the body will go to the ME to remove the bullet from the girls head.
    Maybe some small good can come from this tragedy.

    Hoss, what would the bullet drop be for the same load and zero at 25yds? I'm guessing that is where one is normally shooting w/ a hand gun. My numbers roughly get a drop of close to 230in at that distance.
    "The millions of people, armed in the holy cause of liberty, and in such a country as that which we possess, are invincible by any force which our enemy can send against us." Patrick Henry 1775

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    A tragedy for many families...no ill intent, but certainly carelessness...sad for sure.
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    Senior Member Array Lewis128's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    No mention of the load, so it's hard to be exact but it would take a fairly steep trajectory to hit a target at 360 yards with a 9mm.
    Wouldn't a ricochet change that? You're assuming that he was aiming up and in the direction of the girl.
    A ricochet sounds more plausible to me.
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    A tragedy for many families...no ill intent, but certainly carelessness...sad for sure.
    I agree. I'd also ask, at what point does carelessness become gross negligence?

    I imagine the lawyers will tell me that there's a foreseeability factor, and without the exact details it's tough to comment on that, but......
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    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Ghuqu2 View Post
    ..............Hoss, what would the bullet drop be for the same load and zero at 25yds? I'm guessing that is where one is normally shooting w/ a hand gun. My numbers roughly get a drop of close to 230in at that distance.
    230.6" is what RCBS Load comes up with.

    Quote Originally Posted by Lewis128 View Post
    Wouldn't a ricochet change that? You're assuming that he was aiming up and in the direction of the girl.
    A ricochet sounds more plausible to me.
    Absolutely. I was only showing the amount of angle necessary to get a 9mm that far unobstructed. Get a ricochet and all bets are off. Regardless of how the bullet got there, think of the odds. A projectile less than 4/10 of an inch wide, hits an isolated target it wasn't aimed at, about the same size as a cantaloupe, that's moving, at 360 yards. The odds must be astronomical. So sad all around.

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    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    I heard a radio report over that way this morning that the suspected shooter had a target in a tree. I have no idea if the report was accurate. It is getting so you can't spit in the woods around here without hitting some new house. The suspect had to know the countryside has changed if he lived there. I imagine he is looking at some charges. A jury trial would not be favorable because most folks realize shooting up in the air with a 9mm is gross negligence.

    Hard to imagine the sadness and grief. Go hug your kids

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    Quote Originally Posted by cvhoss View Post
    No mention of the load, so it's hard to be exact but it would take a fairly steep trajectory to hit a target at 360 yards with a 9mm. Using data from a Federal load for a 124 gr. at 1150 fps, here's a trajectory chart.
    The "numbers guy" in me was pondering the same thing... to travel that distance, the launch trajectory had to be damn steep. Kinda rules out a nearby "stray bullet from target shooting" theory. That might change the complexion of who the cops need to look for, and where.
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    Prayers to the family.

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