Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated - Page 12

Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated

This is a discussion on Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Heres the really scary part,one man killed 12 and wounded 30,before being shot by an LEO that was wounded in the exchange of gunfire,what do ...

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  1. #166
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Heres the really scary part,one man killed 12 and wounded 30,before being shot by an LEO that was wounded in the exchange of gunfire,what do you think it would of been like if a cell of terrorists in army uniforms attacked,had they been set up to take out any first responders while slaughtering helpless soldiers the bloodbath could of been far worse,WE ARE AT WAR,WHY AREN'T OUR SOLDIERS,AT LEAST OFFICERS AND SENIOR NCO'S CARRYING SIDEARMS TO PROTECT THEIR TROOPS,MP'S CAN'T BE EVERYWHERE
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .


  2. #167
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Hey, 'fella

    Quote Originally Posted by brobar View Post
    I think if he would have crossed his chest and said "god be with me" before carrying out his horrible deed that we should be suspicious of all Catholics, treat 'em all differently, lock 'em up or maybe just execute 'em all because they are of the same belief as this guy.

    People make me F'n sick!!!

    Our men and women are over there fighting for ALL of us citizens of the United States... not just the baptists, not just those with white skin, not just those with the last name Smith, not just those who believe in god, not just those who believe in the SAME god as you do... but ALL of us! And you want to take all of that away and persecute an entire group of people/US Citizens because of the actions of a handful?

    In today's day and age... I have to be fearful of EVERYONE around me now days because my skin may be of a different pigment, or my accent may sound funny, or a wear something different than everyone else? I can see where things are headed with the way some people think here... and it sure isn't pretty.
    you seem very angry,vicious, hate filled, and perhaps on the verge of antisocial behavior. Your protestations of intolerance fall dead to the ground when coupled with this seeming tirade. Seek help before it is too late. Quote" People make me ...... sick" ???? Yeah, get help guy.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  3. #168
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by carry ok View Post
    you seem very angry,vicious, hate filled, and perhaps on the verge of antisocial behavior. Your protestations ...
    He's simply questioning the angry, vicious, hate-filled thinking of some. He, himself, isn't this way, if you re-read the post.

    The way I read the post, it's clear that:

    • He's being facetious (as in the quip about what suspicion requires of us)
    • He is mindful that soldiers are protecting the liberties of all (not just those like us); and
    • He is questioning the intolerant view that we're supposed to be afraid of everyone merely due to skin color or other absurd criterion.


    The passage isn't a tirade by any stretch: it's pointing out the lunacy of fallacious application of assumptions to all people in a group merely because of the heinous actions of an individual.

    Brobar, are we missing anything?
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
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  4. #169
    VIP Member Array zacii's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post


    Though, I think we'll still have mass-attempts at murder even if all such places are eliminated. The difference will be in the life expectancy of such cowards that attempt such crimes: they'll be highly likely to get instantly terminated and eliminated from our midst. Hallelujah.
    I agree. The mass-murder attempts will continue, but if everyone was armed, like you said, then we would have far fewer victims, if any.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  5. #170
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    As suggested ....

    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    He's simply questioning the angry, vicious, hate-filled thinking of some. He, himself, isn't this way, if you re-read the post.

    The way I read the post, it's clear that:

    • He's being facetious (as in the quip about what suspicion requires of us)
    • He is mindful that soldiers are protecting the liberties of all (not just those like us); and
    • He is questioning the intolerant view that we're supposed to be afraid of everyone merely due to skin color or other absurd criterion.


    The passage isn't a tirade by any stretch: it's pointing out the lunacy of fallacious application of assumptions to all people in a group merely because of the heinous actions of an individual.

    Brobar, are we missing anything?
    I did again read the post. I may be wrong, but I still read it as Him being himself when he wrote "people make me ....... sick". If he chooses to clarify it, then I would admit my misunderstanding. He of course is not obligated to do so for my benefit. However, considering that this forum is for free speech, and exchange of ideas.....
    Last edited by carry ok; November 7th, 2009 at 01:47 PM.
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  6. #171
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    He's simply questioning the angry, vicious, hate-filled thinking of some. He, himself, isn't this way, if you re-read the post.
    ....

    Brobar, are we missing anything?
    + 1

    However, those who claim that there is not a sub-set of an identifiable religion which is at war with this country are in as much denial, as are those who claim that there is no prejudice/stereotyping in those who see all the members of that faith as violent terrorists.

    Not that I am painting Brobar with that brush.

    But we all need to take a deep breath and examine our own feeling, while looking for the moot in our own eyes.

    One of the greatest things I learned in the Corps was how wrong the prejudice/stereotyping of my childhood had been. We were all green, not what my expectations had prepared me for.
    Last edited by DaveH; November 7th, 2009 at 04:32 PM.
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    I am neither an attorney-at-law nor I do play one on television or on the internet. No one should assumes my opinion is legal advice.

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  7. #172
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    I'm going to add a couple of points......

    1- I have family at Ft Hood. My daughter & her husband. Son in law was in the same building as the shooting happened. He was on the opposite side, didn't see the shooter, but did hear the gunfire. He stated he only heard pistol fire. He's heard weapons fire before, just back from his THIRD deployment (Iraq) & readying for his 4th (Afganistan). He finally got home about 0300 next day. Daughter was at home about a mile from shooting in Killeen. They were communicating by cell phone....

    2- I also enter military & federal property regularly. Everything from military bases (..all services), Homeland Security & NSA sites, FBI, nuclear power sites & even federal courthouses. I'm on some kind of Federal property at least ONCE a week. The BIGGEST irritant to me is having to disarm BEFORE going to these sites!

    3- Prior to 9/11, entering most of these places was very easy, most without even stopping at gates & RARELY were you subject to ANY search.

    4- After 9/11, all of these sites were harder to get into (especially the nuclear power generation sites like North Anna & Surry, they are the only ones to actually ask if I have any firearms.). Base passes were harder to get & prior approval was required,as was an escort in a lot of cases. Vehicle searches were normal, but most were cursory at best.

    5- Here in the last couple of years, the security has really gotten 'less restrictive'. My vehicle is rarely searched, except at the 'nuke' sites....& my person has never been been searched until I entered a facility that has metal detectors & those are rare!

    6- Handguns would have been EASY to conceal on my person & enter the bases/facilities. Once on the property, only a few places would have been hard to actually get the weapon into a building.

    7- This incident, at least for the short term, will make entering any of these places harder. Searches will be more complete, but as time goes on....they will return to a more lax condition.

    8- Lastly, I know everybody here is thinking & saying that firearms should be allowed. I AGREE!...but reality is that is NOT going to happen!

    (...sorry to get wordy, I only intended a couple & I just kept adding...shutting up now....)
    Quemadmodum gladius neminem occidit, occidentis telum est.-Seneca

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  8. #173
    Member Array brobar's Avatar
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    Hey guys. ccw9mm pretty much hit the nail square on the head even though I couldn't have said it so eloquently. A few of the posts have been removed by the moderators here so you may only be getting a piece of the conversation. I get real emotional when it comes to seeing hate spewed like it has by a few and for some reason that I can't explain feel the need to stand in defense of those who aren't here to defend themselves especially when it comes to verbally targeting an entire group of people based on the actions of a few. I know the hate is just verbal so to some that may not be a big deal but I just don't want to see the verbal hate towards these people turn into something physical. Maybe some people are just all talk and while I don't *personally* agree with the message... I hope that is all it ever turns out to be... "just talk".

    It is free speech and you are entitled to it no matter how small you want to make yourself look by filling it with hate. I tried to open the eyes of a few by asking the question what if his name wasn't "hasan", what if his skin was lilly white, what if he went to the same church and believed in the same god that you do? Would you still be saying the same hatefull, religiously charged things that you are now? People don't care about hypotheticals though.

    And yes... while some people do literally make me sick with some of the things that come out of their mouth... it doesn't really matter. It is a forum for Pete's sake. It is easy for people to sit behind the protection of their keyboard and monitor and spew such hate knowing that the worst they are gonna get is a verbal lashing from a complete stranger hundreds or thousands of miles away.

    Personally... I'm done with it. I said what I wanted to say... it isn't gonna make a lick of difference or change anyone's mind about how they feel. I'm staying away from it because it really does make me feel sick and uneasy when I read some of the things I read. The only reason I even came back to say this was because I got a PM from someone asking for an explanation. I don't feel like I really should have to explain myself because some may twist it out of context anyways... but WTH. There you have it.

    Peace be with you guys & gals.

  9. #174
    Member Array JBozeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eagleks View Post
    Another GUN FREE ZONE gone bad.

    Another 'female' officer shooting the BG...

    We don't trust our military to carry guns ? Seem stupid to anyone else ?

    Another person jumping on a table, shouting Allah is great, then started shooting..... sound familiar to anyone ??

    An argument for "more carrying" of guns, vs the "less" the anti's will scream for. If others would have been armed they would not have had to wait for Security to shoot him. IF the people in the building in Orlanda had protection, he could not have shot so many. The women raped and strangled by the one guy 'may' still be alive if they had been armed.

    It's time we educate people on how not to be a victim, rather than... the argument that is sure to come from the anti's that there should be more restrictions. Obama... is not using the photo opts at Walter Reed for no reason.
    I have not read all the previous posts in this thread and I will probably repeat something that has already been stated so my apologies if that happens.

    First all, like all of you, my prayers to all who no longer have their loved one or friend any longer. Praying for the full recovery of all those healing from their wounds and the replay of a horrific event that will be on replay for a long time to come.

    My family has worn the American Military Uniform for Generations. Some of my Ancestors wore it proudly in 1776. It may not have looked like much but whatever the uniform looked like there was a principle and way of life that caused the involvement in country, Freedom. Now all through the Generations of our folks and yours, we've all been shooting in the same direction, at the enemy.

    The Liberal Press and Media will make this guy look like a saint for the remainder of the days the coverage of this stuff. Sadam Husein or however you spell his name, made a prophetic statement when we went into Iraq the first time, "This will be the Mother of all Wars"! We all sort of laughed it off, thinking you don't know what you are talking about, it will be over in minutes! We were right because time wise it was over rather quickly. He knew what he was talking about because he knew it would never end.

    What he really meant has just been manifested again! It was manifested when the soldiers were picked off in front of the recruiters office some time ago. It will continue to happen because POLITICAL CORRECT is the rule of the day! When a guy starts yelling "Allah is Great" he has one thing is mind. The Liberal Press and Media can't comprehend that and will do everything it can to confuse us about it! You don't have to deploy folks, the war is here! Then you have a former president state on national television that a certain religion is a "peaceful religion"! That is a lie! It has one goal and that Goal has just been horrifically shown again.

    That being said, I have been out of the Air Force a long time now, but the Oath I took in the 70's is still in place in my heart and life, "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America"! The Flag flies in my Church along side the Christian Flag another symbol of Freedom. And be it Political Correct or not, God Is Great, just not the one he's talking about!

    This type of Mass Murder will happen again and all of us know it will continue. Anybody wearing American Military Uniform has a bullseye on them! None the less we, (I would if I wasn't so old and can't get back into the service) wear it proudly.

    Folks in the White House are clueless. Just like Johnson during the Nam War. Waste Ordinance on Unproductive targets! Be sure the troops call HQ and request permission to return fire if you encounter fire from the VC. Requesting permission to return Fire, ------------ does that seem stupid to anyone. That is just what the Enemy always counts on, ignoring reality. CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, will make this guy like a Saint before it is over with.

    God have mercy on our Country
    God bless America
    Please protect our Troops on Foreign Soil and State Side.
    God please give us somebody in White House with a Bible in Hand, an American Flag in their eyes and American History in their Hearts motivating, promoting and protecting Freedom for all!
    Please God!

    Take Care Everybody
    Safe Armed and Stay Safe
    Need anymore convincing to Carry

    Boze
    Boze
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to, this is the last stand on earth." Ronald Reagan

    "Gentlemen, Prepare to defend yourselves" SGM Basil Plumley

  10. #175
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Another person jumping on a table, shouting Allah is great, then started shooting..... sound familiar to anyone ??
    A simple reminder to folks who don't see it clearly: People who commit such heinous acts are not devoutly religious. Nor do they uphold the core beliefs of any major or minor religion on the planet.

    Rather, they are bent, twisted and inhuman, and they speak falsehoods when they lay claim to association with any good people who follow the righteous aims of any religion. Such people are no more following Allah or Yahweh or Christ than they are sitting on a pile of $100B as a gift to the world's poor. Such people earn two things: expulsion from the gene pool, violently and urgently if they so choose; as well as our complete and utter disdain.

    So, perhaps we can keep the religious claims out of it. It has nothing to do with what this poor schmuck did, nor will it have anything to do with what's coming to him.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #176
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    That is just what the Enemy always counts on, ignoring reality. CNN, CBS, NBC, ABC, MSNBC, will make this guy like a Saint before it is over with.
    Or a poor victim of the harrassment from his fellow soldiers or one whose poor tortured soul was so affected by observing the PTSD of the real combat soldiers who were supposed to be his patients that he had to snap.

    Maybe they should just call a bloodthirsty murdering terrorist by his true name.

  12. #177
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Murder is in the spiritual heart of the murderer.

    This is not the first time military folks have been attacked by one in the military who tried to use mass murder to glorify their religion. During the first Gulf War a unit of the 101st was attacked at a base camp in Kuwait with grenades and weapons fire by one of their soldiers who was of the same faith as we are talking about.

    If I were in the Army today I would find out who in my unit was of this faith and while been respectful I would not trust them with my life.

    The shooter at Fort Hood served two masters and was in conflict between his faith and his duty to his country.

    If you can not be true hearted in you commitment to serve then the honorable thing to do is at the first opportunity get out of the military. Unless you felt you had some kind of SICK calling to be a (mass murderer).

  13. #178
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBozeman View Post
    You don't have to deploy folks, the war is here! Then you have a former president state on national television that a certain religion is a "peaceful religion"! That is a lie! It has one goal and that Goal has just been horrifically shown again.

    That being said, I have been out of the Air Force a long time now, but the Oath I took in the 70's is still in place in my heart and life, "I will support and defend the Constitution of the United States of America"! The Flag flies in my Church along side the Christian Flag another symbol of Freedom. And be it Political Correct or not, God Is Great, just not the one he's talking about!
    sir not to start a war but i thought the same thing before i deployed the first time untill i started studing the muslm religion i found out that they are peaceful people just like most christan people BUT as there are extremest in the christain religion there are islamic extremest i have found that most religions do have an extremest group that belongs to them NOW with that said i dont like this topic and wont say anymore about it but it is sad what happened on fort hood and i wish everyone would contacrt someone who could help change the ccw laws on post i came up with an idea that might work and still allow commanders control on post so here it is please tell me what you think:

    1. soldiers wanting to carry on post must have a valid ccw for that state.

    2. you must attend a post/base safety class and qualifiey at military standards on the weapon or weapons you will or would be carrying

    3. must have writen promission from you battlion commander 0-5 and above to carry

    4. ANY ucmj action can cause you to lose the right to carry on post by the command of your batalion commander for any length of time .

    5. you must surender your weapon when order to by anyone in your chain of command when reciving punishment of any kind .

    6. where you can and cant carry is still determinded by the post commander

    7. NO CIVILAN may carry on post with out the same prosess completed in lue of a commander a CIVILAN post rep will have to sign off on them carrying .


    ok am ready for the
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  14. #179
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Murder is in the spiritual heart of the murderer.

    This is not the first time military folks have been attacked by one in the military who tried to use mass murder to glorify their religion. During the first Gulf War a unit of the 101st was attacked at a base camp in Kuwait with grenades and weapons fire by one of their soldiers who was of the same faith as we are talking about.
    not the first gulf war sir that was OIF 1 and it was one gewnade and no weapon and it was a command tent with his LT in it he killed his LT

    sorry for the correction but i was in at that time we recived alot of training after that just in case we ever had to deal with that NOT saying all units got the tranning but we sure did as MP's
    S&W M&P 45c sold
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  15. #180
    VIP Member Array searcher 45's Avatar
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    Damion: Thank you for the correction, I was just pulling from memory of a TV report about the event.

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