Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated - Page 13

Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated

This is a discussion on Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; np...

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  1. #181
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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  2. #182
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    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

    "A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source

  3. #183
    Member Array JBozeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damion View Post
    sir not to start a war but i thought the same thing before i deployed the first time untill i started studing the muslm religion i found out that they are peaceful people just like most christan people BUT as there are extremest in the christain religion there are islamic extremest i have found that most religions do have an extremest group that belongs to them NOW with that said i dont like this topic and wont say anymore about it but it is sad what happened on fort hood and i wish everyone would contacrt someone who could help change the ccw laws on post i came up with an idea that might work and still allow commanders control on post so here it is please tell me what you think:
    No War Started here my friend and thanks for your comments. Extremist! Exactly! We're not going to agree on that Peaceful idea but that is ok. I don't like it either that such an awful event has taken place bringing about all these comments on this sad event. Sad Sad indeed in so many ways. That being said, Carry where you can and stay safe!

    Take Care
    Boze
    Boze
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  4. #184
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    Lets take our rose colored PC glasses off for a minute, and look at some factual recent history;

    June 23, 1985: Air India Flight 182 bombing over the Atlantic Ocean - 329 killed

    December 21, 1988: Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Scotland - 270 killed

    February 26 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.

    March 12, 1993: Bombay bombings - 257 killed

    December 24 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers

    June 25 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.

    February 14 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12 km radius

    August 7, 1998: U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania - 224 killed

    October 12 2000 - Attack on the USS cole in the Yemeni port of Aden

    September 11, 2001: September 11 attacks in the United States - 2,998 killed

    13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba

    March 3 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured

    May 7 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.

    September 24 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured

    October 12, 2002: Bali bombing in Indonesia - 202 killed

    March 2, 2004: Ashura massacre in Iraq - 170 killed

    March 11, 2004: Madrid train bombings in Spain - 191 killed 1462 injured

    May 16 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.

    September 4, 2004: Beslan school hostage crisis in Russia - 344 killed (186 children)

    November 2 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.

    February 4 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people

    February 28 2005: Al Hillah bombing in Iraq - 127 killed

    July 7 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.

    July 23 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.

    October 29 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.

    November 9 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved

    March 7 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Taiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. Uttar Pradesh government officials

    July 11, 2006: Mumbai train bombings in India - 207 killed

    March 27, 2007: Tal Afar bombings and massacre in Iraq - 152 killed

    August 14, 2007: Yazidi communities bombings in Iraq - 796 killed

    May 13 2008. Jaipur, India. Pakistan-based Islamic militants detonate around 7 bombs within 12 minutes, leaving over 60 dead and numerous injured.

    July 26 2008. Ahmedabad, India. Islamic militants detonate at least 16 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 49 dead and 160 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of militants suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India

    September 13 2008. Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 2 people dead.

    November 26-28, 2008 - 2008 Mumbai attacks in India - 185 killed

    Lets not forget about the DC sniper, and now Ft. Hood.

    We must have a different idea of what peaceful is. And I can make this list a lot longer if I wanted to spend more time on this post.

    We are dealing with a very real problem here, no matter if you or the media wants to admit it. We are going to see more and more of this stuff, here and abroad. Mark my words, as soon as our military leaves the middle east, we are in for a rough time.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  5. #185
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    I haven't read all the replies but I did want to mention that the liberal gun hating media is reporting that the killers gun was an FN "COP KILLER" gun than can use up to a "30 ROUND" magazine. They also said that the other pistol was a "Magnum" (revolver?) and apparently not as evil as the FN. They mentioned the name of the gun store where the gun(s) were legally purchased, as if the gun store was an accomplice to these mass murders! The message that the media is trying to send is that the gun made this mad man commit murder! Wait for the fall out on this spin.

  6. #186
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    Here goes the spin

    'Cop Killer' Gun Thought To Be Used In Ft. Hood Shooting - ABC News
    'CopKiller' Gun Used In Ft. Hood Shooting, Officials Said
    Suspected Massacre Weapon Purchased Legally At 'Guns Galore' Shop in Texas
    By MATTHEW COLE, PIERRE THOMAS, JASON RYAN, and RICHARD ESPOSITO
    Nov. 6, 2009

    The gun thought to be used in the Fort Hood massacre packs so much firepower, it's known as 'the Cop Killer,' federal law enforcement officials said.

    Major Nidal Malik Hasan allegedly packed a FN Herstal Five-seveN tactical pistol, which according to federal law enforcement officials, was legally purchased from the "Guns Galore" shop in Killeen, Texas in Aug. 2009. The store's manager, David Cheadle, said that particular firearm can hold 20 rounds in a standard clip and take a ten round clip extension. Cheadle said with one clip and one round in the chamber, one could fire 31 rounds before reloading.

    Hasan may have used an expanded clip in the shooting.

    On FN Herstal's webpage, the benefits of the Five-seveN pistol note that it can "defeat the enemy in all close combat situations in urban areas, jungle conditions, night missions and any self defense action."

    The Associated Press: AP Sources: Rampage gun purchased legally



    AP Sources: Rampage gun purchased legally
    By LARA JAKES and DEVLIN BARRETT (AP) – 18 hours ago

    WASHINGTON — A 5.7-millimeter pistol used in the Fort Hood shooting was purchased legally by suspect Nidal Hasan at a Texas gun shop, law enforcement officials said Friday.

    Army Col. John Rossi, deputy commander at Fort Hood, confirmed at a news conference late Friday in Texas that the two weapons carried by Hasan were not military arms, but "privately owned weapons ... purchased locally."

    He said more than 100 rounds were fired during the attack.

    Records indicate Hasan bought the FN 5.7 at store called "Guns Galore" in Killeen, Texas, in recent months and that gun was used in the attack that left 13 people dead, one of the officials said. The pistol has been dubbed a "cop killer" by those who have tried to stop its use.

    The law enforcement officials spoke on condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to discuss the case.

    One of the law enforcement officials said that the second gun was an older model Smith & Wesson .357-caliber revolver, but the official added there's nothing so far to indicate the second weapon was fired. The official said the revolver was so old, investigators doubt it could be traced to a specific purchase.

    The most powerful type of ammunition for the FN 5.7 gun is available only to law enforcement and military personnel. Gun control advocates call it a "cop killer" weapon because that ammo can pierce bulletproof vests, and its use by Mexican drug cartels worries police.

    It is not clear what kind of ammunition was used in the Fort Hood attack.

    Agents with the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives, as well as the Texas Rangers have interviewed store personnel about Hasan's gun purchase. One official said the store records do not indicate Hasan purchased any ammo when he bought the gun.

    Fort Hood shootings: gunman used 'cop killer' weapon in massacre at US Army base - Telegraph


    Fort Hood shootings: gunman used 'cop killer' weapon in massacre at US Army base
    The US Army major who carried out the Fort Hood massacre sprayed more than 100 rounds at his comrades using a gun nicknamed the "cop killer."
    Major Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, used an FN Five-Seven, a semi-automatic pistol popular with SWAT teams, that can fire armour-piercing bullets.

    A total of 13 people died in the bloodbath at the Texas military base and 38 were wounded.

    Hasan had bought the weapon legally at a gun store close to Fort Hood in August and practiced at a nearby shooting range.

    During the attack he also carried a Smith & Wesson .357-calibre revolver but it was not clear if he used it.

    The killing spree only ended when Hasan was shot and seriously wounded by two police officers, Sgt Kim Munley, who was herself shot in the thighs and wrist, and her partner Sgt Mark Todd.

    Sgt Todd said: "When we got there he was hiding behind a telephone pole firing at people as they ran around.

    "He fired at me and I fired back. I was about 15 yards away. I could see into his eyes and he was calm. We did what we had to do, I wish we could have got there sooner."

    Sgt Munley, who is only 5ft tall, is being treated for her wounds in hospital and has been described by friends as a "ball of fire" and a "great cop." When she arrived she saw Hasan firing at a fleeing, wounded soldier. She chased him and opened fire only for Hasan to turn and unleash his "cop killer" weapon.

    Sgt Munley is married to Matthew Munley, a member of the special forces who has done two tours of Iraq.

    Her stepmother, Wanda Barbour, said: "She is a very great person with a great spirit. We are just so grateful and thankful to the Lord that she's safe." The eruption of violence was over in just 10 minutes.

    It began as 300 soldiers had been waiting to get vaccinations and have their eyes tested at a Soldier Readiness Center. Some witnesses reported that Hasan shouted "Allahu Akbar!" during the chaos.

    Specialist Elliot Valdez, who survived, said: "I felt like I was back in Iraq. The noise, the chaos. It felt like Iraq."

    The victims included a pregnant woman. Francheska Velez, 21, from Chicago, was filling out paperwork when the shooting started.

    She had only just returned from a tour three days before and was expecting a baby boy in May.

    Hasan's family said in a statement that his alleged actions were "despicable and deplorable." His cousin Nader Hasan said: "Our family is filled with grief. Our family loves America. We are proud of our country." In the days before the attack Hasan had been saying goodbye to friends, had given away his possessions and begun distributing copies of the Koran to neighbours.

    At 2.37am and 5am on the day of the massacre he called Willie Bell, a neighbour at his apartment block, and left a message saying: "Nice knowing you, old friend. I'm going to miss you."

    Mr Nelson was later interviewed for four hours by the FBI after it emerged Hasan had borrowed his computer for two months, even though he had his own.

    Police are also looking for a man in Islamic dress who was seen going into Hasan's apartment two days before the massacre.

    Alice Thompson, 53, who manages the two-storey block of flats, told the Telegraph: "It was very unusual because he had never had anyone round before. He had long black hair and a moustache and a dark complexion.

    "He stayed about five minutes and then left. We'd never seen him before."

    The following day Hasan knocked on the door of his next door neighbour Patricia Villa, 47 and gave her many of his belongings, including clothes, furniture and vegetables, and a copy of the Koran.

    "He said he was going to Oklahoma on Thursday morning and then deploying to Afghanistan," she told the Telegraph.

    "He came in and put the bags down in the living room and he seemed nice and normal. I didn't think it was odd because sometimes people don't want to throw things away. I'm just shocked."

    On the morning of the massacre Hasan was seen throwing garbage bags into a rubbish skip at the back of the building.

    Mrs Thomson said: "It was the first time I'd seen him throw anything away. I saw there was shredded paper in there. After it happened the police came and took the bags away."

    She said Hasan paid $325 a month rent and had paid six months in advance. Despite telling her he was leaving for Afghanistan, he didn't ask for any money back.

    OTOH



    Ft. Hood terrorist used a cop killer FN-Five Seven tactical pistol?20 round clip

    Major
    Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, used an FN Five-Seven, a semi-automatic pistol popular with SWAT teams that can fire armor-piercing bullets commonly called the “cop killer. A total of 13 people died in the bloodbath at the Texas military base and 38 were wounded.

    Our corrupt politicians, leaders and the Lying Liberal Media want to parse words and play politically correct games with our serviceman’s lives. Hassan is a terrorist no matter what his creed or religion.

    The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition defines ter•ror•ist as one that that engages in acts or an act of terrorism. Nowhere does to call attention to state of mind nor religious pursuits.

    Hasan gave away possessions prior to his attack but more importantly he went to a gun shop and bought a handgun that has one purpose and that is to kill policeman or soldiers that may be wearing body armor.

    The FN Five Seven is a killing machine and armor piercing rounds are available for this ultra hot firearm which can spit bullets out its muzzle in excess of 2000 feet per second.


    The UK Telegraph reports,



    "He fired at me and I fired back. I was about 15 yards away. I could see into his eyes and he was calm. We did what we had to do, I wish we could have got there sooner."

    Sgt Munley, who is only 5ft tall, is being treated for her wounds in hospital and has been described by friends as a "ball of fire" and a "great cop." When she arrived she saw Hasan firing at a fleeing, wounded soldier. She chased him and opened fire only for Hasan to turn and unleash his "cop killer" weapon.



    Is there any doubt that his man terrorized the 300 plus soldier’s he fired upon with every intention to kill them and aren't you tired of politically correct terms that distort the facts and our collective morals.
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  7. #187
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBozeman View Post
    No War Started here my friend and thanks for your comments. Extremist! Exactly! We're not going to agree on that Peaceful idea but that is ok. I don't like it either that such an awful event has taken place bringing about all these comments on this sad event. Sad Sad indeed in so many ways. That being said, Carry where you can and stay safe!

    Take Care
    Boze
    just a small correction i never said the war didnt start here !!!!!!!!
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  8. #188
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    I love to see these ladies take out the bad guys.

    Munley Was Ex-Partner's "Mighty Mouse" - The Early Show - CBS News

  9. #189
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Lets take our rose colored PC glasses off for a minute, and look at some factual recent history;

    June 23, 1985: Air India Flight 182 bombing over the Atlantic Ocean - 329 killed

    December 21, 1988: Pan Am Flight 103 bombing over Scotland - 270 killed

    February 26 1993 - World Trade Center bombing, New York City. 6 killed.

    March 12, 1993: Bombay bombings - 257 killed

    December 24 1994 - Air France Flight 8969 hijacking in Algiers by 3 members of Armed Islamic Group of Algeria and another terrorist. 7 killed including 4 hijackers

    June 25 1996 - Khobar Towers bombing, 20 killed, 372 wounded.

    February 14 1998. The 1998 Coimbatore bombings occurred in the city of Coimbatore, Tamil Nadu, India. 46 people were killed and over 200 were injured in 13 bomb attacks within a 12 km radius

    August 7, 1998: U.S. embassy bombings in Kenya and Tanzania - 224 killed

    October 12 2000 - Attack on the USS cole in the Yemeni port of Aden

    September 11, 2001: September 11 attacks in the United States - 2,998 killed

    13 December 2001 - Suicide attack on India's parliament in New Delhi. Aimed at eliminating the top leadership of India and causing anarchy in the country. Allegedly done by Pakistan-based Islamist terrorist organizations, Jaish-E-Mohammad and Lashkar-e-Toiba

    March 3 2002 - Suicide bomb attack on a Passover Seder in a Hotel in Netanya, Israel. 29 dead, 133 injured

    May 7 2002 - Bombing in al-Arbaa, Algeria. 49 dead, 117 injured.

    September 24 2002 - Machine Gun attack on Hindu temple in Ahmedabad, India. 31 dead, 86 injured

    October 12, 2002: Bali bombing in Indonesia - 202 killed

    March 2, 2004: Ashura massacre in Iraq - 170 killed

    March 11, 2004: Madrid train bombings in Spain - 191 killed 1462 injured

    May 16 2004 - Casablanca Attacks - 4 simultaneous attacks in Casablanca killing 33 civilians (mostly Moroccans) carried by Salafaia Jihadia.

    September 4, 2004: Beslan school hostage crisis in Russia - 344 killed (186 children)

    November 2 2004 - Ritual murder of Theo van Gogh (film director) by Amsterdam-born jihadist Mohammed Bouyeri.

    February 4 2005 - Muslim militants attacked the Christian community in Demsa, Nigeria, killing 36 people, destroying property and displacing an additional 3000 people

    February 28 2005: Al Hillah bombing in Iraq - 127 killed

    July 7 2005 - Multiple bombings in London Underground. 53 killed by four suicide bombers. Nearly 700 injured.

    July 23 2005 - Bomb attacks at Sharm el-Sheikh, an Egyptian resort city, at least 64 people killed.

    October 29 2005 - 29 October 2005 Delhi bombings, India. Over 60 killed and over 180 injured in a series of three attacks in crowded markets and a bus, just 2 days before the Diwali festival.

    November 9 2005 - 2005 Amman bombings. Over 60 killed and 115 injured, in a series of coordinated suicide attacks on hotels in Amman, Jordan. Four attackers including a husband and wife team were involved

    March 7 2006 - 2006 Varanasi bombings, India. An attack attributed to Lashkar-e-Taiba by Uttar Pradesh government officials, over 28 killed and over 100 injured, in a series of attacks in the Sankath Mochan Hanuman temple and Cantonment Railway Station in the Hindu holy city of Varanasi. Uttar Pradesh government officials

    July 11, 2006: Mumbai train bombings in India - 207 killed

    March 27, 2007: Tal Afar bombings and massacre in Iraq - 152 killed

    August 14, 2007: Yazidi communities bombings in Iraq - 796 killed

    May 13 2008. Jaipur, India. Pakistan-based Islamic militants detonate around 7 bombs within 12 minutes, leaving over 60 dead and numerous injured.

    July 26 2008. Ahmedabad, India. Islamic militants detonate at least 16 explosive devices in the heart of this industrial capital, leaving at least 49 dead and 160 injured. A Muslim group calling itself the Indian Mujahideen claims responsibility. Indian authorities believe that extremists with ties to Pakistan and/or Bangladesh are likely responsible and are intent on inciting communal violence. Investigation by Indian police led to the eventual arrest of a number of militants suspected of carrying out the blasts, most of whom belong to a well-known terrorist group, The Students Islamic Movement of India

    September 13 2008. Delhi, India. Pakistani extremist groups plant bombs at several places including India Gate, out of which the ones at Karol Bagh, Connaught Place and Greater Kailash explode leaving around 30 people dead, followed by another attack two weeks later at the congested Mehrauli area, leaving 2 people dead.

    November 26-28, 2008 - 2008 Mumbai attacks in India - 185 killed

    Lets not forget about the DC sniper, and now Ft. Hood.

    We must have a different idea of what peaceful is. And I can make this list a lot longer if I wanted to spend more time on this post.
    great list i agree completely but can you do me a favor and find out which of these tragic events was not planned out by an extremest group i would like to see those numbers........the reason i say this is i have really good friends (in the army ) who are islamic and they and some of the people here in iraq that feel the same way all of us feel as in total support for are military (they come by the very few but they are here too) i being a soldier deployed to iraq and have done the worst part of my job alot more than once and being someone who has watched there childhood friend die infornt of him from an IED (roadside bomb) i can tell you it took me a long time to come to these anwers i give you i feel that it is your right however to think and say what you please i mean I DO FIGHT FOR THAT RIGHT ....well at least some people would say or think so ....i dont know .....you tell me .....now we all have the right to are thought and beleafs so i would say lets just aggree to dis aggree

    k?

    damion
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  10. #190
    Member Array JBozeman's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Damion View Post
    just a small correction i never said the war didnt start here !!!!!!!!
    What I meant was that there is no war between me and you! We won't ever agree on the "peacefulness" of these folks. That's Ok! While we won't do that, let's agree to watch each others back so we can survive the efforts of the Extremist!

    Take Care
    Stay Safe

    Boze
    Boze
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to, this is the last stand on earth." Ronald Reagan

    "Gentlemen, Prepare to defend yourselves" SGM Basil Plumley

  11. #191
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    Quote Originally Posted by JBozeman View Post
    What I meant was that there is no war between me and you! We won't ever agree on the "peacefulness" of these folks. That's Ok! While we won't do that, let's agree to watch each others back so we can survive the efforts of the Extremist!

    Take Care
    Stay Safe

    Boze
    cool lets do that you take care of the home front ill deall with BG's here lol .........and sorry for the missunderstanding i get you now
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  12. #192
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    I agree that all those events I listed were planned and carried out by extremists. There is no doubt about it. My point is, there is a disproportional amount of extremists within the Muslim community. There is also no shortage of people willing to carry out attacks, and it is only going to get worse. Nothing seems to be off limits.
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #193
    Member Array Damion's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    I agree that all those events I listed were planned and carried out by extremists. There is no doubt about it. My point is, there is a disproportional amount of extremists within the Muslim community. There is also no shortage of people willing to carry out attacks, and it is only going to get worse. Nothing seems to be off limits.
    this is ture nothing is off limits to terrorist and the cowardly acts they commit are really out of control but lack of understanding gives them power

    i think i would rather study and know my enemy and look at all the info then move after he cant find a way out and then ....well lets just say god can figure it out from there
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  14. #194
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    Sixto for the win. The shooting war long avoided on US soil is here in the form of one little ambush here and one mass murder there.

    Islam: Making a True Difference in the World

    This is not something new. Internet Islamic History Sourcebook Islam has been spread by the sword since the seventh century. Had it not been for the French King, Charles "The Hammer" Martel at the Battle of Tours in 732, we all would be locked in the Muslim middle ages like much of the Islamic world today. King Charles saved the western world by stopping the military expansion of Islam that had run unchecked for 100 years. It took the Spanish almost 200 more years to expel the Muslims from Spain. So, for 1100 years, they turned their attentions to their east and to Africa. Now, however, the move to the west is renewed. What has happened in the last seventy years is an unprecedented transfer of wealth to oil rich Islamic nations. This has enabled the religion of peace to fund the renewal of the struggle started by Mohamed in 632. But let's ignore the history and look at Islam in 2009.

    Giving Muslims the benefit of the doubt, today 99.9% of Islam may be peaceful. That leaves 1,000,000 Islamic fanatics to wreak havoc. The thing that troubles is the one billion avowed peaceful Islamic people do not seem to be mounting effective programs to curb the fanatics. Thereby, allowing their religion to be portrayed in a very bad light.

    It is time for peace loving Muslims to step up to the plate and eliminate the bad seeds. For an example of what to do, see the US government's successful efforts against a whole range of murderous fanatic groups. An effort which is ongoing and will never be complete.

    Until I see effective action from the moderate Islamic community, I have to equate standing by and watching the carnage with being a passive, peaceful, participant in the carnage. In other words, it is not enough for peaceful Muslims to stand by clucking their tongues while fanatics murder and destroy in the name of Islam. At some point, to gain my respect, moderate Islam has to come to grips with what is being done in their name. Or, just admit the obvious - the vast majority of the Islamic world agrees with what is going on in the world.

  15. #195
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    Are Abdulhakim Mujahid Muhammad, Hasan Akbar or Nidal Malik Hasan extremists?

    How about John Allen Muhammad?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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? 2009: shooting at fort hood, texas, by sunni extremist results in 56 wounded or killed

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? 2009 shooting at fort hood texas by sunni extremist results in 56 wounded or killed

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? 2009: shooting at fort hood, texas, by sunni extremist results in 56 wounded or killed
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