Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated - Page 18

Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated

This is a discussion on Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by hamlet This isn't posted for the proposal made in mid-article, but for the major point: the over-all reflections offered on murder. Murder ...

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  1. #256
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    This isn't posted for the proposal made in mid-article, but for the major point: the over-all reflections offered on murder.

    Murder has no religion
    By Arsalan Iftikhar, Special to CNN
    November 9, 2009 12:30 p.m. EST

    Editor's Note: Arsalan Iftikhar is an international human rights lawyer, founder of TheMuslimGuy.com, and contributing editor forIslamica magazine in Washington.

    Washington (CNN) -- Most of the world's 1.57 billion Muslims know that the Holy Quran states quite clearly that, "Anyone who kills a human being ... it shall be as though he has killed all of mankind. ... If anyone saves a life, it shall be as though he has saved the lives of all of mankind."
    Accordingly, it should come as little surprise to any reasonable observer that when Army Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan recently committed his shocking acts of mass murder at Fort Hood, Texas, America's Muslim community of over 7 million felt an added sense of horror and sadness at this senseless attack against the brave men and women of the U.S. armed forces.

    True to form, many conservative media pundits wasted little time in pointing to reports that Hasan had said "Allahu Akbar" (Arabic for "God is great") at the start of his murderous rampage. News coverage continuously showed the looping convenience store black-and-white videotape footage of Hasan wearing traditional white Islamic garb.
    First of all, someone simply saying "Allahu Akbar" while committing an act of mass murder no more makes their criminal act "Islamic" than a Christian uttering the "Hail Mary" while murdering an abortion medical provider, or someone chanting "Onward, Christian Soldiers" while bombing a gay nightclub, would make their act "Christian" in nature.
    Simply put; murder is murder and has no religion whatsoever.
    Professor Juan Cole of the University of Michigan once wrote that, "One most certainly does insult Muslims by tying their religion to movements such as terrorism or fascism. Muslims perceive a double standard in this regard: Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols would never be called 'Christian terrorists' even though they were in close contact with the Christian Identity Movement. No one would speak of Christo-fascism or Judeo-fascism as the Republican[s] ... speak of Islam-o-fascism. ... [Many people also] point out that [it was] persons of Christian heritage [who] invented fascism, not Muslims."
    According to Pentagon statistics, there were over 3,400 American Muslims serving in the active-duty military as of April 2008. The Wall Street Journal reported that many officials believe "the actual number of [American] Muslim soldiers may be at least 10,000 higher than the Pentagon statistics."
    Thus, with thousands of patriotic American Muslim women and men proudly serving in our United States Army in places like Iraq and Afghanistan, perhaps it would behoove our army leaders to consider sending a strong message of American unity by appointing an American Muslim to be a part of the prosecution team against Hasan.
    This would help show that the mass murders allegedly committed by Hasan have nothing to do with the teachings of our religion.
    The United States Army can send a resounding message to all Americans and the rest of the world that the social fabric of our country will never become unraveled by murderous (and irreligious) gun-wielding felons -- whether it is a Muslim in Fort Hood, Texas, or a non-Muslim on a shooting rampage in an Orlando, Florida, high-rise less than a day later.
    By appointing a multicultural (and multireligious) legal prosecution team made up of military lawyers of all races and religions, we can set a good example to show the rest of the world that our American legal justice system is truly equal for all people, regardless of their race, religion or socioeconomic status.
    The larger point is that Muslims in America completely disavow and wash our hands of any acts of murder (or terrorism) claimed to be performed in the name of our religion. Acts of mass murder, regardless of their time or place, are simply ungodly criminal acts that have no religion whatsoever.

    The opinions expressed in this commentary are solely those of Arsalan Iftikhar.
    Thanks for this post. Muslims are no more responsible for Hasan than Christians are for Jim Jones. My guess is that Hasan, like Jones, is a narcissist convinced of his own divine mission. This pathology is independent of any religious affiliation the idiot may have chosen to justify his acts.
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  2. #257
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    It would appear that many of the 1.57 billion Muslims did not get the memo from Arsalan Iftikhar, telling them what good humanitarian, tolerant, peaceful, live and let live people they are.
    p.s. could someone post a source for any reports/videos of the 7 million Muslims in America in anguish, and expressing an 'added sense of horror and sadness' over the event. I have missed it thus far. It may assuage my personal feelings, and the feelings of many other intolerant, bigoted, lunatics, were we able to witness such. And, thanks in advance.
    Last edited by carry ok; November 10th, 2009 at 08:51 AM.
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  3. #258
    VIP Member Array gottabkiddin's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    November 9, 2009 11:46 p.m. EST
    Fort Hood, Texas (CNN) --
    The suspect, Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, remained in intensive care at Brooke Army Medical Center in San Antonio, Texas. In a statement issued Monday night, the FBI said its investigation so far "indicates that the alleged gunman acted alone and was not part of a broader terrorist plot."................
    The FBI might want to talk to the CIA..... Last I heard, there was some form of attempted communication by the shooter to a known, and or suspected terrorist. Unless I'm misunderstanding your post, if so sorry.
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  4. #259
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    washingtonpost.com

    Failing the troops at Fort Hood

    By Eugene Robinson
    Tuesday, November 10, 2009

    There's a difference between sensitivity and stupidity. If there were indeed signs that Maj. Nidal Hasan, the alleged Fort Hood mass murderer, was becoming radicalized in his opposition to the U.S. wars in Iraq and Afghanistan, the Army had a duty to act -- before he did.

    Gen. George Casey, the Army chief of staff, said Sunday that he was concerned "this increased speculation" about Hasan's evolving political and religious views "could cause a backlash against some of our Muslim soldiers." Casey is right to worry about the lunatics and bigots who now will think of all Muslims in the military as potential enemies. But it only feeds such paranoia to ignore alarm bells that an unstable individual, Muslim or not, is about to blow.

    According to published reports, Hasan told people of his serious doubts about the U.S. military campaigns in Iraq and Afghanistan. Hasan, a psychiatrist who had evaluated returning soldiers for stress-related disorders, made no secret of his reluctance to serve in the Afghan theater, where he was to be sent within weeks. According to ABC News, fellow Army doctors told superiors of their concern that Hasan felt divided allegiance -- both to the Muslims whom he felt were under attack and the country he had volunteered to serve.

    All this should have been enough to prompt an urgent intervention by Army brass, regardless of Hasan's religion. That it did not is unfair to the thousands of Muslims who have served in the military, and continue to do so, with honor and distinction.

    "The system is not doing what it's supposed to do," Army doctor Val Finnell told the Associated Press. Finnell, who studied with Hasan, complained to higher-ups about Hasan's "anti-American" rants and his stated view that the United States was conducting a war against Islam. "He at least should have been confronted about these beliefs, told to cease and desist, and to shape up or ship out."

    Indeed he should have been. In the Army, there's a rich tradition of grousing about idiotic higher-ups and their ridiculous orders. But it sounds as if Hasan's complaints went far beyond the ordinary, especially in the notion that he might be unsure of his loyalty and duty.

    If Hasan's superior officers had investigated, they might have pieced together the story that seems to be emerging: that Hasan was behaving erratically, that his faith apparently had become increasingly political, that he desperately wanted out of the military and that he was distraught about being ordered to the war zone.

    Army officials surely were aware that Muslims in the service have complained of taunts and harassment from their fellow soldiers. For moral and practical reasons, the Army must eliminate such discrimination. I've had issues with the way former president George W. Bush did his job, to say the least, but one good thing he did was emphasize that his "war on terrorism" was not a war against Islam, one of the world's great faiths. That disclaimer rings hollow if Muslims serving in the armed forces are blamed for the crimes of Islamic terrorists and treated as potential traitors to the American cause.

    But fairness is one thing, foolishness another. Any soldier who seemed as if he might be falling apart -- and it seems that Hasan gave a lot of people that impression -- should have been given more scrutiny. In Hasan's case, a closer look would have revealed his growing religiosity and his feeling that his faith was under assault. That Hasan had worshiped at a Virginia mosque whose spiritual leader was a radical named Anwar al-Aulaqi might also have come to light. The Post reported Monday that Aulaqi, who now lives in Yemen, has posted a message on his Web site calling Hasan a "hero" for what he allegedly did at Fort Hood.

    Had authorities learned in advance of any link between Hasan and radical Islam -- as opposed to the mainstream Islam practiced by more than a billion people worldwide -- they could have moved immediately to ensure that Hasan could not hurt others or himself. That wouldn't have been an act of bigotry, it would have been an act of prudence, even compassion.

    How is the Pentagon supposed to tell the difference between reasonable caution and blatant discrimination? There are thousands of Muslims in uniform, serving their country at home and abroad. Ask them.

    The writer will be online to chat with readers at 1 p.m. Eastern time Tuesday. Submit your questions and comments before or during the discussion.

    Opinion focus with Eugene Robinson: Obama's Afghanistan conundrum, Lieberman's choice, just another election day? - washingtonpost.com
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  5. #260
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    General Casey......

    is certainly justified in his fears. Just remember for a moment all the lunatics and bigots that initiated mass murder sprees against American Muslims after 9-11, and the USS Cole attack, et al. I cannot personally remember the accurate number of those vicious attacks, and how many victimized Muslims died in the various and brutal episodes, but apparently it was horrific!
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  6. #261
    Distinguished Member Array tiwee's Avatar
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    Emperor Hirohito speech ending WWII ".....enduring the unendurable and suffering what is insufferable. "

    I respect Hamlet for appearing on this thread and being a citizen who advocates self protection by virtue of membership in this group.

    Much like Hirohito, Hamlet is in the position of explaining the unexplainable and ignoring that which cannot be ignored. An unenviable spot for anyone.

    I have spent hours sitting in a soils laboratory with a Muslim from Pakistan. We talked of everything you normally talk of with friends. Job, family, religion, sports, you name it. I would cover for him for the different prayer times during the day. He would cover for me when the boys were playing soccer. By working together we were able to get the necessary readings and manipulations on tests that took 48 hours straight. He was the nicest most soft spoken guy and a great friend. I was sad when he returned home after graduation. This was almost twenty years ago, but even then he relayed how people were afraid to challenge the radical interpreters of Islam for fear of violence against their family. Millions and millions of Muslims are in fear of radical clerics. We have to be patient while the moderates slowly root these violent people from their religion.

    However, while we are waiting, we do not have to submit to the fear and attacks ourselves. We must be decisive and violent in our response to radical Islam. To do otherwise will make it harder for the moderate Islamic community to win control of their faith.

    Part of a decisive response is not to ignore the facts or get wrapped up in ridiculous speculation about whether so and so acted alone or whatnot. It doesn't matter. It only serves to confuse the issue of response to the radical threat to our way of life. We must target radicals everywhere they spew their hate. At the same time conduct public relations campaigns to assure moderate Islam our intentions are only to eliminate the murderers in their midst. Perhaps if we win them over, the unstated support for jihad will melt away. If not, we know where they stand.
    Last edited by tiwee; November 10th, 2009 at 09:26 AM. Reason: grammar

  7. #262
    VIP Member Array Patti's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    They'll probably try to get an insanity plea. Some secondary effects of the post traumatic stress with other soldiers that he was dealing with...some bs like that
    I don't believe he can claim insanity when he premeditated the murder. He gave away his belongings (including his korans), purchased the handguns and ammo, walked into the building and began slaughtering unarmed soldiers.

    That rules out insanity.
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  8. #263
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    I respect Hamlet for appearing on this thread and being a citizen who advocates self protection by virtue of membership in this group.

    Much like Hirohito, Hamlet is in the position of explaining the unexplainable and ignoring that which cannot be ignored. An unenviable spot for anyone.
    First time I've ever doubled for Hirohito. I'm not explaining anything: I'm waiting for evidence from investigators until I draw conclusions. You're explaining everything. I'm also not ignoring anything. I'm just not judging everything; (but a 100 hrs or so have past since the event).

    You believe your beliefs, and consider others who don't share them at to be in denial, ignoring, "explaining the unexplainable etc.".

    This is a hallmark found in exclusive religious beliefs.

    So too are the assumptions you need know nothing more than you do - and based on that can initiative "decisive and violent actions" against radicals who spew hate. Likely because of the future danger they may cause. And I bet you're the one who decides which of the killers-in-the-future receive the violent actions you are initiating. You've already decided it's besides-the-point if they are anyone else had anything to do with the killings at Ft. Hood besides this one guy. It's still a war of violent action against any radicalized people who spew hate. (Hmmmmmmm........)

    No thanks. Think it's time I got back to Planet Earth.

  9. #264
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    It would appear that many of the 1.57 billion Muslims did not get the memo from Arsalan Iftikhar, telling them what good humanitarian, tolerant, peaceful, live and let live people they are.
    p.s. could someone post a source for any reports/videos of the 7 million Muslims in America in anguish, and expressing an 'added sense of horror and sadness' over the event. I have missed it thus far.
    Area Islamic Community Condemns Ft. Hood Massacre - Cincinnati News Story - WLWT Cincinnati

    http://www.freep.com/article/2009110...-Hood-shooting

    Article Details

    Local Muslim Community Reacts To Fort Hood Shooting - KESQ.com Palm Springs, Coachella Valley - Weather, News, Sports:

    Massacre Leaves 13 Dead At Fort Hood : NPR

    American Muslims condemn Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's Ft. Hood shooting & killing - An American Muslim Journal

    washingtonpost.com

    Fort Hood shooting stuns America

    Ft. Hood shootings unsettle Muslim community | Central Jersey News - - NJ.com

    Local Muslim reaction to Ft. Hood shootings | KUSI - News, Weather and Sports - San Diego, CA | Good Morning San Diego


    Wajahat Ali: The Fort Hood Tragedy: Fanning the Anti-Muslim Hysteria

    Bay County Islamic Society Reacts to Ft. Hood Killings

    etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,...
    (Above just US responses, small example, print only)
    Be glad to give you search-tips for the videos and then foreign as well. No where, however, on any references, print or video, were you listed. Seems odd......)

  10. #265
    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    It would appear that many of the 1.57 billion Muslims did not get the memo from Arsalan Iftikhar, telling them what good humanitarian, tolerant, peaceful, live and let live people they are.
    p.s. could someone post a source for any reports/videos of the 7 million Muslims in America in anguish, and expressing an 'added sense of horror and sadness' over the event. I have missed it thus far.
    Area Islamic Community Condemns Ft. Hood Massacre - Cincinnati News Story - WLWT Cincinnati

    Arab, Muslim groups in Michigan condemn Ft. Hood shooting | freep.com | Detroit Free Press

    Article Details

    Local Muslim Community Reacts To Fort Hood Shooting - KESQ.com Palm Springs, Coachella Valley - Weather, News, Sports:

    Massacre Leaves 13 Dead At Fort Hood : NPR

    American Muslims condemn Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan's Ft. Hood shooting & killing - An American Muslim Journal

    washingtonpost.com

    Fort Hood shooting stuns America

    Ft. Hood shootings unsettle Muslim community | Central Jersey News - - NJ.com

    Local Muslim reaction to Ft. Hood shootings | KUSI - News, Weather and Sports - San Diego, CA | Good Morning San Diego


    Wajahat Ali: The Fort Hood Tragedy: Fanning the Anti-Muslim Hysteria

    Bay County Islamic Society Reacts to Ft. Hood Killings

    etc., etc., etc., etc., etc., etc.,
    These just example of US print references,
    (I came across no references to your own anguish being written about or shown on video, under any category at all.)

  11. #266
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    I'm not explaining anything: I'm waiting for evidence from investigators until I draw conclusions. I'm also not ignoring anything. I'm just not judging everything ...
    Some might not appreciate it (or even recognize the distinction). I do. Thank you, H.

    Am frequently in the same boat, myself, of having to explain context and non-assumptions to those needing improvement of reading comprehension.

    As for awaiting evidence, there are some things hard to ignore, such as being shot at from the suspect who's now in custody. The final report's going to identify for the rest of us the source of those bullets, which was confirmed at time of entry into her body by the person being shot: the cop who terminated the attack. Some facts, such as the primary shooter's identity, need not await the report in order to be true. The rest of the suppositions, though, are more complex and should await the results of the investigation, agreed.
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  12. #267
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    Massad Ayoob's recent blog on Fort Hood shooting

    Not a long read, if anyone's interested.
    Trust in God and keep your powder dry

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  13. #268
    Senior Member Array mojust's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by zacii View Post
    Massad Ayoob's recent blog on Fort Hood shooting

    Not a long read, if anyone's interested.
    Good article. Important to remember Ayoob is Lebanese American.
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  14. #269
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    I guess after the article posted by Ayoob, just go ahead and pile on him as well for having sympathy for Muslims.

    And I feel for the estimated 3500 followers of the Islamic faith who honorably serve at this writing in our nation’s armed services. I hope these loyalists won’t be tarred by the same brush as Hassan.
    While I am not a Ayoob worshiper like some, I believe he has called this one right. It isn't the gun, or the religion, it is the man Hasan, that is to blame for this event.
    Last edited by farronwolf; November 11th, 2009 at 01:13 PM.
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  15. #270
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    In my opinion, this conversation should be more about what could have been done to stop this scumbag and those like him from committing this kind of terrorist act. However to reply to your obviously biased links ....

    Fort Hood suspect's superiors questioned behavior - Yahoo! News


    By BRETT J. BLACKLEDGE and RICHARD LARDNER, Associated Press Writers Brett J. Blackledge And Richard Lardner, Associated Press Writers – 2 mins ago

    WASHINGTON – A group of doctors overseeing Nidal Malik Hasan's medical training discussed concerns about his overly zealous religious views and strange behavior months before the Army major was accused of opening fire on soldiers and civilians at Fort Hood, Texas.

    Doctors and staff overseeing Hasan's training viewed him at times as belligerent, defensive and argumentative in his frequent discussions of his Muslim faith, a military official familiar with several group discussions about Hasan said. The official was not authorized to speak publicly about the meetings and spoke on condition of anonymity........"


    People can try to deny his faith had no bearing on his actions...I humbly disagree!
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