Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated

This is a discussion on Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; After this incident I hope service members wake up and start requesting authorization to carry firearms everywhere. Lets see if at least one makes a ...

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Thread: Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated

  1. #91
    Senior Member Array cagueits's Avatar
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    After this incident I hope service members wake up and start requesting authorization to carry firearms everywhere. Lets see if at least one makes a Heller Vs DC equivalent in the military.
    I can no longer keep track of threads as I used to. If you need to contact me, PM me instead of asking me something in the thread. Disclaimer - No legal advice issued anywhere. Take care.

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  3. #92
    Member Array carry ok's Avatar
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    Talk about spin.....

    Quote Originally Posted by Sticks View Post
    Anybody have any Reliable intel on this that did not derive from the media, speculation, or "I know a guy who knows a guy"?

    Everyone needs to step back on your presumptions and consider the source of the information.

    The only thing that we know to be a fact is that there was a shooting on a military base that resulted in numerous deaths and injuries.

    We might know the name of the shooter... at least what the military says is the name of the shooter - like the military always releases the actual facts.

    We absolutely do not know why the shooting happened. More than likely we will never know. We will be given some story to drink and accept it.

    I refuse to speculate on the motives. I will absolutely not assume that because the name of the shooter (as far as we know) has Arabic origins, that he was of a religious sect.

    I know lots of people that have last names that end with "ski" that are neither Russian, Polish or Jewish. I know lots of people with German names that are not Nazis. I know a lot of southern people that are not rednecks or members of the KKK.

    Horrible incident.

    ...Or maybe a military person who targeted individuals who were convicted of treason, sedition, atrocities against innocents that were not receiving punishment they deserved. Maybe the targets were POWs not being routed to Guantanamo Bay. Hmmmm...that would change the spin on this a bit.
    do you perhaps work for MSNBC? ha! ha!
    Extremism in the Defense of Liberty is No Vice--Moderation in the Pursuit of Justice is No Virtue. - Senator Barry Goldwater

  4. #93
    Member Array Double Naught Spy's Avatar
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    I don't think it was funny when the coward killed all those at VT either. Do you?
    Of course not, Grady, but I never said the shooting was funny, did I? I said that it was funny that we call it cowardice when we don't like what happened. Go back and reread.

    I still say he was a coward.
    Just what do you think the definition is of coward?

    To be a coward is to be afraid to face danger. This guy knew he was going to face danger. He committed an attack that would immediately cause him to face danger by having to battle with the cops and military personnel. He then battled the cops and military personnel.

    His attack was a lot of things that were negative from the victim's perspective. It was sneaky. It was underhanded. It was murder. Noboby likes to be ambushed. However, starting off an attack with the upper hand in a situation does not make it an act of cowardice. Using attributes such as superior firepower, superior numbers (not applicable here, but one of the attributes), or choosing a time to attack when the opposition is vulnerable are attributes considered in the military to be smart tactics. These are means to maximize your effectiveness while minimizing your risk.

    So yeah, I find it a bit funny (as in ironic in case you are unable to follow the contextual meaning of the term being used here) that when smart tactics are used against us, we call the acts cowardice, but that the same tactics used for our benefit they are considered to be good tactics.
    Considering yourself to be defenseless is the first administrative step to becoming a victim.

  5. #94
    Member Array PeterCartwright's Avatar
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    Cannot imagine how horrible this must be for a close military community. I'm still shocked by the lethal effectiveness of this one mass murderer. Haven't yet seen anything specific about the guns/loads he used. When I first heard about the number of victims, I was certain there HAD to be multiple shooters...or perhaps a stolen M4.

    Isn't it painfully ironic that our largest military base has been revealed as a "soft" target (i.e. no one but law enforcement personnel may be legally armed). I'm not offering that as a knee-jerk criticism--just an observation. It's one of many issues that must be giving base commanders heartburn right now.

    We need to pray for all the brave folks serving our country.

    PC

  6. #95
    VIP Member Array Sig 210's Avatar
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    The shooter was a career Army man. He had served eight years as an enlisted man before he became an officer. Law enforcement had been looking at Hasan's online posts for about six months but they never identified the poster.


    Troubling portrait emerges of Fort Hood suspect - Yahoo! News

    At least six months ago, Hasan came to the attention of law enforcement officials because of Internet postings about suicide bombings and other threats, including posts that equated suicide bombers to soldiers who throw themselves on a grenade to save the lives of their comrades.


    Bingo. The guy had started identifying with Palestinian causes.


    On a form filled out by those seeking spouses through a program at the mosque, Hasan listed his birthplace as Arlington, Va., but his nationality as Palestinian, Khan said.

    "I don't know why he listed Palestinian," Khan said, "He was not born in Palestine."

    Nothing stood out about Hasan as radical or extremist, Khan said.

  7. #96
    VIP Member Array grady's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Of course not, Grady, but I never said the shooting was funny, did I? I said that it was funny that we call it cowardice when we don't like what happened. Go back and reread.
    I knew exactly what you meant. I was responding out of anger that you would be defending this coward.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Just what do you think the definition is of coward?

    To be a coward is to be afraid to face danger.
    I disagree. I think it is cowardice to gun down unarmed people, people who supposedly had your trust, people who were in a position to trust their lives to you.


    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    This guy knew he was going to face danger. He committed an attack that would immediately cause him to face danger by having to battle with the cops and military personnel. He then battled the cops and military personnel.
    You consider him battling unarmed military personnel, while he was armed with at least 2 guns and multiple rounds, to be a battle? Sounds like a slaughter of innocents to me.

    So according to your definition, was Cho couragous? He knew he would be facing young, strong people, and eventually the cops. Do you consider Cho a hero?

    As far as yesterday's shooter battling cops, I've heard so far of one first responder who returned fire. As is usually the case in these cowardly mass shootings, the coward fires until confronted by someone else with a gun.

    We don't know yet if she acted alone in bringing this guy down. If she did, your description of "cops" may turn out to be inaccurate. But nontheless, I still consider his actions cowardly.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    His attack was a lot of things that were negative from the victim's perspective. It was sneaky. It was underhanded. It was murder.
    Finally we agree on something.

    Quote Originally Posted by Double Naught Spy View Post
    Noboby likes to be ambushed. However, starting off an attack with the upper hand in a situation does not make it an act of cowardice. Using attributes such as superior firepower, superior numbers (not applicable here, but one of the attributes), or choosing a time to attack when the opposition is vulnerable are attributes considered in the military to be smart tactics. These are means to maximize your effectiveness while minimizing your risk.

    So yeah, I find it a bit funny (as in ironic in case you are unable to follow the contextual meaning of the term being used here) that when smart tactics are used against us, we call the acts cowardice, but that the same tactics used for our benefit they are considered to be good tactics.
    How would this be for smart tactics: when a muslim rants and raves about how unfair the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are, and how we shouldn't be there at all, if someone walks up behind him and blows his brains out... according to your definition, that would be "choosing a time to attack when the opposition is vulnerable" and a "means to maximize your effectiveness while minimizing your risk."

    Are you good with that?

    I've been holding this back until I found out more about the shooter, to learn whether he really was anti-American and a radical muslim. It's clear from what I've heard on several networks that he may fit those descriptions.

    Here's what I've experienced in my military travels and otherwise when dealing with muslims: I've yet to find one who will stand up one-on-one with either an Israeli soldier or an American soldier, and yes, I've given several that opportunity. However, many are good-to-go when there are unarmed innocents involved. No, I don't think that is courageous.

    Since you seem to think this guy may be justified in his actions because his actions were "smart tactics", how do you recommend dealing with such tactics?

    I knew what you meant when you said "funny", as in "ironic". I guess I was stunned that you would come to this guy's defense so readily.

    For all I know you are a muslim sympathizer who doesn't agree with the wars. Okay, if that's your opinion, you've got a right to have it. But you lose your right to criticize when people start popping muslims in the back of the head as they're going about their everyday business because, after all, according to you it's "good tactics."

    I'm not saying I would agree with such actions, but it's the other side of the coin to your support of this guy's tactics. Or do you only support such tactics when perpetrated by muslims?

  8. #97
    New Member Array VinnyT's Avatar
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    "He had 2 handguns, one which was a semi-automatic"

    What was the other one, a revolver??

  9. #98
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    I consider it cowardly to not be able to handle the stresses of life and insist on taking innocent people down with you. I figure he intended to die here. Put one in your own head and let everybody else go about their lives. This kind of crap makes me sick. I feel very little sympathy for folks that insist on taking other people out when they decide to try to end their own existence. Columbine, VT, et all, same mode of operation.

  10. #99
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    First and foremost, my prayers for and condolences to the families and friends of those shot.

    Second, I acknowledge that all the intel I have is from the press, and I seldom trust the press.

    But that said, my level of feeling of betrayal approaches my level of empathy with and symphony for the victims and their families.

    If he is who they say he is:

    he betrayed the oaths that I took in the USMC and to the USA for 31 years of service;

    he betrayed the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets Honor Code "a cadet will not lie, cheat, or steal, nor tolerate those who do" a code that we define as the root of a lifetime of honor and integrity;

    he betrayed our commitment to Duty, Honor, Leadership, Loyalty, Brotherhood, Service, Sacrifice, and Ut Prosim (That I May Serve);

    he betrayed VTCC's seven Medal of Honor recipients and eighteen recipients of Distinguished Service Cross or Navy Cross; and

    he betrayed all the names of alumni carved on the limestone pylons of the VT War Memorial, who have died while in military service.

    No, he did/does not diminish these things nor diminish the honor, courage, and sacrifices of others. No one man has that power. These things stand on there own two feet and his dishonor is his and his alone. The actions of a coward, a deranged soul, or whatever reflect on him and him alone. But the feeling of betrayal is incalculable.

    Rest in peace all who died.

    May all who suffered find solace, consolation, and comfort.

    May he roast in hell, sooner than later -- but forever!

    UPDATE:

    Contrary to earlier local TV news reports he was not VTCC.

    http://www.roanoke.com/news/nrv/breaking/wb/225314

    Virginia Tech this morning confirmed that Fort Hood shooting suspect Nadal Malik Hasan graduated from the university in 1995.

    Here's the full news release.

    Virginia Tech has confirmed with the United States Army Human Resources Command in Alexandria, Va., that the alleged shooter at Fort Hood, Texas, once attended Virginia Tech.

    According to Virginia Tech records, Nidal Malik Hasan first enrolled at Virginia Tech for Summer Session II in 1992, and completed coursework in Spring Semester 1995. He received a Bachelor of Science degree with honors in biochemistry from the College of Agriculture and Life Sciences. He minored in biology and chemistry.

    Prior to enrolling at Virginia Tech, Hasan was a student and completed coursework at Barstow Community College in Barstow, Calif., and at Virginia Western Community College in Roanoke, Va.

    Hasan was not a member of the Virginia Tech Corps of Cadets, nor was he a member of any ROTC program at Virginia Tech.
    But somehow, I don't feel much better.

    and I repeat: "May he roast in hell, sooner than later -- but forever!"
    Last edited by DaveH; November 6th, 2009 at 02:09 PM. Reason: Update added
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  11. #100
    Distinguished Member Array Reborn's Avatar
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    My heart goes out to all the soldiers and family. My prayers have been said. Its a shame when our soldiers are not safe in their home land.
    Psalms 144:1
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  12. #101
    Member Array Arisin Wind's Avatar
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    Evil walks among us.

    A slow salute to the fallen warriors.
    Be not far from me, for trouble is near; For there is none to help. psalm22:11

  13. #102
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    Bless to all those affected by these tragedies..

  14. #103
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    Quote Originally Posted by Reborn View Post
    My heart goes out to all the soldiers and family. My prayers have been said. Its a shame when our soldiers are not safe in their home land.
    It is a shame when our military men and women are forced to be in a self defense free environment on base. Of all people, those running the DOD should be aware of the dangers of a victim rich, defenseless, politically important target.

    Is there a courageous general or admiral out there that is not afraid of their precious career, willing to address the ban on concealed carry on military installations.

    An overwhelming majority of state legislatures and governors have granted concealed carry to the citizens. It is absurd those same citizens are proscribed from self defense to and from a military installation and while on base. The situation has an "Alice in Wonderland" feel.

    Write your congressman and senator.
    Last edited by tiwee; November 6th, 2009 at 09:38 AM. Reason: grammar

  15. #104
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    It Was A Female Police Officer who Shot Ft. Hood Killer

    Latest info on who shot the shooter: arriving police officer, she acted very quickly and aggressively and brought him down with 4 shots; she herself being shot in the process:

    Cop praised for quick action at Fort Hood - CNN.com

  16. #105
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    Wonder how many military secrets he gave away to his "brothers"
    of his paternal home land?

    They should hog tie the guy,put him on the Ft. Hood football field and
    let everyone know where he is at.
    That should take care of it.

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