Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated
This is a discussion on Mass Shooting at Ft. Hood Texas Army Base (Merged) - Updated within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; +1 for marksmanship....
November 6th, 2009 09:48 AM
"First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
Edge of Darkness
November 6th, 2009 10:01 AM
To those of you quickly raising the question of why not arm our military men & women while on base (and I'm not disagreeing with you here... just asking)... what do we do to separate the wheat from the chaff? OBVIOUSLY there are people who are so adamant about not being deployed (for their 2nd, 3rd, 4th or even in this instance their 1st tour). We've got thousands upon thousands of men and women returning home from war with post traumatic stress disorder. It is unfortunate... but I'm sure some of you know probably first hand that war can really mess an individual up in the head. Now I know you guys aren't saying specifically to arm THESE individuals... but you've got a group of people who are put through unbelievable stresses that a few of us may understand but many of us may not... is it ok for these individuals sometimes severely scarred, disturbed and sometimes messed up because of the war or the thought of going to war... are we to allow all these people to be walking around, what are supposed to be safe and secure installations, with firearms?
I'm not saying our men & women should not be able to protect themselves while on base so don't even try and go there. Actually I'm all for that! But I'm an analyst by nature and one of the things I wonder about is how people would handle those traumatized by war, the thought of war, or severely messed up because of what they experienced during war all having firearms walking around on our military installations nationwide?
November 6th, 2009 10:09 AM
A word to the wise: anyone, anytime, anywhere. It doesn't take an armorer to kill dozens.
"We are trying to make sense of all this," he said. "He wasn't even someone who enjoyed going to the firing range."
WE paid for his education, if the "DOD did."
Originally Posted by bh153dc
All the more infuriating.
He's ending up a major screw-up. Bully for him. What a guy. I wonder if the family is proud of the pathetic major. (I know what news is reporting them having said. But I wonder what they think, which isn't being reported.)
He blew a gasket. Unless he was attacked by others, that IS why. What he might have claimed as his motivators is irrelevant, whether it's Sponge Bob, Bo Diddley or the sixth paragraph of the Constitution's articles. Irrelevant supposition, all of it. And, in the end, it makes no difference. The coward took the cowards' road, shooting at unarmed people, breaking the trust others had in him, betraying all that his "brothers" held holy. That's all we need know. For that, he should fry. All the rest is irrelevant, empathetic crap ... and an attempt to put meaning to a meaningless, cowardly act.
We absolutely do not know why the shooting happened. More than likely we will never know.
Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
self defense (A.O.J.).
How does disarming
the number of victims?
Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos)
NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.
November 6th, 2009 10:13 AM
(and similar assumptions):
Wonder how many military secrets he gave away to his "brothers"
of his paternal home land?
It's easy and tempting to generalize, blame and hate the group that this killer or any killer is from: the group can be his religious group, ethnic group, political group, whatever. It's an understandable reaction.
But that mindset could be the same as the killer's, the same as the Al-Qaeda bomber in Irag feeling perfectly justified in killing children because Iraquis are the religious enemy.
Even if this guy turns out be a political terrorist, he's not all Muslims, all men, all people with short haircuts - all anybody.
But right now, since we know nothing about his motives, we know nothing about his motives. I think it's healthy to recognize that, and mourn for the dead, wounded and their families. That does a good. We've seen enough hatred for one day.
November 6th, 2009 10:48 AM
another wounded has died overnight
shooter is on a ventilator
Certified Glock Armorer
"I got a touch of hangover bureaucrat, don't push me"
Independence is declared; it must be maintained. Sam Houston-3/2/1836
If loose gun laws are good for criminals why do criminals support gun control?
November 6th, 2009 10:49 AM
FT Hood Shooting
Yet another senseless shooting,on a military base this time of all things! I'm a vet and although I haven't been on a military base in awhile,maybe things have changed since I have been there! But I found it extremely strange that I didn't see any Military Police! This was a Military base,all Military personal,and the shooter was a military officer,Why then did all we see as responding personnel were civilian police and swat? This is not there juristiction AT ALL!!They have no authority! I have never seen anything like that on a military base and it just made me wonder if they weren't telling the whole story for some reason? It still makes me wonder why I didn't see one MP? ANY thoughts,Any other vets here find it really strange?
November 6th, 2009 10:50 AM
I think if he would have crossed his chest and said "god be with me" before carrying out his horrible deed that we should be suspicious of all Catholics, treat 'em all differently, lock 'em up or maybe just execute 'em all because they are of the same belief as this guy.
People make me F'n sick!!!
Our men and women are over there fighting for ALL of us citizens of the United States... not just the baptists, not just those with white skin, not just those with the last name Smith, not just those who believe in god, not just those who believe in the SAME god as you do... but ALL of us! And you want to take all of that away and persecute an entire group of people/US Citizens because of the actions of a handful?
In today's day and age... I have to be fearful of EVERYONE around me now days because my skin may be of a different pigment, or my accent may sound funny, or a wear something different than everyone else? I can see where things are headed with the way some people think here... and it sure isn't pretty.
November 6th, 2009 10:53 AM
God bless her and all other men and women who run into situations to protect others.
Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!
Stupidity should be painful.
November 6th, 2009 11:02 AM
I recently got out of the Marines and I work on base now as a civilian. Most of the MPs on base are civilians. The military is deploying most of the military police to the wars and are hiring civilians to patrol the bases.
November 6th, 2009 11:05 AM
I was wondering this myself. I guess the MP's are being replaced with DOD contractors.
Proud houlder of a Texas Open Carry License.
November 6th, 2009 11:06 AM
The same is true here at Seymour Johnson, base security is provided by civilian contractors only occasionally augmented by Security Police.
Originally Posted by 2ndAmend
When you have to shoot, shoot. Don't talk.
"Don't forget, incoming fire has the right of way."
November 6th, 2009 11:10 AM
I don’t think it matters if it was a women or a man she did her job and did it well.
God bless her and her family and all the soldiers that lost their lives and were wounded.
November 6th, 2009 11:14 AM
We have no knowledge of any of the above at this point at Ft. Hood.
I call a spade a spade...a skunk a skunk.....as long as we are at WAR with these groups, countries, religious fanatics, and mindsets then it is SMART and in my opinion our DUTY to look at these incidents and others threatening like them as threats to our county and our way of life
If an investigation finds ties to terrorist groups with a link between them and the killings than it will have been a terrorist act. That hasn't happened. This event isn't yet 24hrs old.
November 6th, 2009 11:19 AM
+1 agree with everything you just stated.
Originally Posted by 2ndAmend
November 6th, 2009 11:27 AM
Yet another REAL WORLD proof that on body carry as for personal protection is FTW!
Cone said the officer and her partner responded "very quickly" to the scene of the shootings -- reportedly in around three minutes...
...Munley "just happened very fortunately to be very close to the incident scene," Cone told CNN's "American Morning."...
...Maj. Nidal Malik Hasan, 39, an Army psychiatrist at Darnall Army Medical Center. They said he opened fire at a military processing center Thursday at Fort Hood, killing 13 people and wounding 30 others.
Not in your car or in your book bag or as locked in your desk at work. On YOUR body.
The officer was as described; "very close to the incident scene".
The response time was described as being; "Very quickly...Reportedly in around three minutes".
The shooter is confirmed to have fired and reloaded to fire some more; killing 13 people and wounding 30 others.
To really draw the point home below is a video showing how loooooong three minutes is.
YouTube - Hannah Montana True Friend FULL + Lyrics
Imagine being under active and immediate incoming close quarters fire for this length of time, with little if any means of active ability to defend yourself.
Also consider that a three minute response time is ONE HALF to ONE FOURTH that of the average response time for civilian police. So say the DOJ.
Other select police response times as around the country can be found at this thread from April; http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...456-post1.html
To put things another way, watch that video two to four times over as back to back.
Imagine the numbers of persons who would have been killed had the shooter had more time, as per averages, prior to police response and intervention.
When a person asks why you carry arms on your person.
A serious and not at all glib response would be; 'Because I can't afford to keep a cop at my side 24x7.'
P.S. - I could not take but 0:34s of that video before I closed the tab, wincing.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
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