Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl

[Ram Rod]

To me it does not seem right that the officer was fired!!!!!

The officer was fired for not employing his department issued video equipment which he had been warned about before. Nothing to do with his actions. I just read the article in today's local paper. I don't think it's really fair given the publicity of the whole deal, but if you'd like, I could try and get information for the next city council meeting where they can reverse the police chief's decision on the firing, and the officer can request a review and possible reinstatement.
Full news article here: Ozark officer who shocked girl, 10, fired

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[paramedic70002]

To me it does not seem right that the officer was fired!!!!!

Several years ago in Suffolk, VA, an LEO was responding to a call when he crashed his cruiser, unfortunately causing a structure fire. He was fired for, get this, failure to respond to a call.

Sometimes LEOs (and other people) get fired for rather odd reasons. Not saying it was the case here, but sometimes the boss is already planning your departure, just waiting for a justifiable reason.

[64zebra]

....just getting in this thread, so much of my time working as LEO and taking care of my kid , sorry if too long for some to read but I had to express my thoughts on a few things:

Originally Posted by RA229
There is no one that can convince me you need to use a taser on a 10 yr old. That goes beyond punishment, thats ABUSE period.

First the taser isn't punishment nor used for punishment, its used for compliance and to prevent injury to suspect and officer, not even close to abuse. Abuse would be the parent using a taser on the kid for not eating their veggies.

Originally Posted by stevem174
Would anyone care to offer an opinion on how a child that is out of control SHOULD be dealt with?

The way parents dealt with spoiled brats for hundreds of years before the nanny state got involved.
My parents would not have allowed it to get to that point. I learned BEFORE I was 10 that tantrums would not gain me anything.
My parents would never have called the police.
The police would never have responded to something that stupid.
And nobody would have been tasered.

EXACTLY Guns....this child was led down the wrong road well before this night

Originally Posted by rottkeeper
So what's the next step when they get kicked in the groin?

Oh my. I thought cops had some training. I guess I was wrong.
Maybe Barney Fife got kicked in the groin.
I thought every man above the age of 14 knows how to react.

I can't believe what I'm reading. No wonder gun sales are through the roof.
If cops can't protect themselves from a 10 yr old, they'll never protect us.

Police Academy Training session: Day 1. "Here's your taser. Congratulations, you're an officer. You start tomorrow."

we do have some training, and part of that training is to use judgment on each situation, if a kid kicks me my choices are
1-go hands on, I'm 6'4" 215, if I go hands on with a 10-11 year old they will get hurt, then I'd have to deal with all the naysayers telling me I shouldn't have hurt the kid and their must be some other way of dealing with it, or
2-OC...but its not recommended to use it on kids since they react to it more harshly, then I'd have to deal with the naysayers telling me I shouldn't have caused this kid's breathing problems and sending him to the hospital, there must be some other way of dealing with it, or
3-tase/drive stun....instant notification that they are not complying with my instructions, temporary discomfort, seems to be best option to me, but I'd still have to deal with the naysayers telling me I shouldn't have tased a kid and there must be some other way of dealing with it


I agree that the nanny state is a huge problem, cops or any other gov't agency shouldn't be called when parents can't do their job but its a sad part of our society, parents need to do their jobs but thats not whats at the heart of this thread
cops do have training, thats why the guy used his taser rather than other avenues, your Day 1 of academy training is absurd
if I'm off-duty and this happens (won't have my taser) my options are shoot the guy with my firearm or go hands on and severely injure the person, if I'm on-duty I have my taser to stop the threat/aggression/resisting without hurting the individual or myself
I've been in H2H with people resisting in cuffs and before cuffing and each time I had to take them to the hospital for their injuries and to be cleared medically before I take them to jail. I didn't use too much force or go overboard, I used the minimum necessary to do the job and they got hurt. When the taser has been used, I removed the probes and guy goes to jail with no injury (and taxpayers didn't have to pay for ER visit, X-rays, MRIs, blood tests, etc)

Most Polices Dept's are using it to avoid injury to both the officer and the offender.

That is fine.

then why the argument? preventing injury to both is one of the reasons for the taser

You know, I have seen good elementary school principals deal with the most unruly and out of control kids with nothing more than soft words. There are plenty of folks who would have known how to calm that situation we are discussing instead of making it as bad as the idiot parents who called the cops.

there are times when it only takes words....any parent knows that, any cop knows that, then there are times where words don't work, and when a parent, teacher, or cop is being assaulted by a kid the time for words has passed
I pride myself on being able to talk with people on the job, mentals, vics of assaults/sex assaults, and calming people who are agitated at crime scenes, etc.

I know you and sixto and several others are the good guys and do a tough job. I'd like to see a little less knee jerk defense of inappropriate police conduct when it happens.

as well, we'd like to see a little less knee jerk reaction to cops actions when people don't know the training involved and purpose of using tools/instruments and just say there must be some other way and assuming that the officer was inappropriate based on their uneducated opinions

Again, there's no excuse. You all maybe didn't even pay attention to what started this incident.

Mom called the cops because the kid wouldn't get into the shower before bed!

Is it a cop's job to get the kid to bed?

no, absolutely not, IMO an officer should not get involved with this basic scenario, but the officer was assaulted and used a tool to stop the actions of the offender as quickly as possible without hurting them
I paid attention very closely, taser was used effectively and appropriately to stop the situation and prevent the cop from hurting the girl through hands-on action, If I was to take a 10yo down they would most likely have an injured wrist/elbow/shoulder and face smashed on the ground, we can't take action 1/4 or half speed like its training

(And, being really cynical-- were any questions asked as to why the kid wouldn't get into the shower? Had she been molested there? Were photos about to be taken? Just asking to point out that running in and fighting with the kid and tasing her without figuring out what was going on wasn't real brainy either.)

none of us knows about molestation, photos, details on the shower problem, and we also don't know that the officer just ran in and started fighting with the kid and tazed; saying this and turning the story around to make it sound worse than it was isn't real brainy either

As for the safety issue, Barkn doesn't persuade. He knows very well that electric shock can disrupt heart rhythm

Barkn also has training with AED's as do I and other LEOs, and have training with tasers so we know that the amperage used in a taser is minuscule compared to what is used in an AED or defibrillators to shock a heart and affect its rhythm, and I can break someone's arm taking them to the ground, bust out their teeth when their face hits the pavement...is that a better option for the kid? what would the outcrys from everyone if that had happened?

What is wrong with you guys? You seem to no longer know or understand the difference between an adult and a child. Possibly you no longer even recognize the boundaries of where your authority and duties lie.

on the contrary, we do know the difference between an adult and child, the child could have been really injured if the officer used hands-on force on her, stopping someone from assaulting us is well within our authority; but I agree with you and others that intervening ONLY in the area of the kid not taking a shower is absurd, but we still don't know the details of this incident...was the kid on juvenile probation, causing her to be arrested and automatically taken to jail? maybe we'll learn soon

Again, I know you all are good guys, but I can't accept the tasing of a 10 year old in the circumstances described--or even the involvement of the police other than to make certain the child was safe. CPS could have been called. Teachers could have been called. Perhaps paramedics could have been called.
Mostly though, the officer could have walked. His presence at the scene wasn't needed as no law had been broken.

you can't accept it....fine, others can and will
as said above, we don't know the details so criticizing the officer's involvement at this point is not founded, he could have walked but again we don't know what all happened
Teachers will not get called to a scene, Paramedics wouldn't have got involved since its not in the scope of their job

This case differs dramatically from the one Sixto mentioned that he was involved in because in that instance the kid per Sixto was attempting to harm himself. What was this kid doing-- disobeying a parent's demand to get unskunked? Is that the law's business?

what she was doing was assaulting an officer, the other issues at the house became irrelevant at that point

You son sounds a tad like a 17 year old experiencing the symptoms and behavior of schizophrenia. I have no idea if this disease affects children that young or not.

my my mental training as LEO....yes it does, not as often but yes it does, I've had to deal with 17-18 year old with this and it wasn't any fun, paramedic70002....good luck with your situation

What do you do when your child is out of control? Would CPS think it was ok if parents used taser on children that didn't comply with verbal commands.

A completely different set of circumstances, don't you think?

In my mind, no, not at all. If my son ever gets to the point where he thinks he doesn't have to listen to me, or a LEO for that matter, he has a world of hurt coming. But no taser would be used. I am sure CPS would have something to say about it.

I'm sure parents using a taser for discipline is completely different than a LEO using one on the job to control a subject, pretty black and white to me

Don't people have to pass a basic intelligence test to go to the police academy? This is moronic beyond description.

yep, I have a college degree, and had to take a written test on math, english, writing, logic; physical agility test, with 2 psychiatric tests (450 questions and another 250 questions) polygraph, board interview, then a physical, then went through 27 week academy trained on penal code, family code, government code, education code, health & safety code, traffic code, Code of Criminal Procedure, Use of Force, Critical Incident training (mental diseases, hostage situations, etc), cultural diversity, defensive and police driving, firearms, self-defense, civil rights, health and fitness, HAZMAT/weapons of mass destruction response, emergency first aid, communications, stress management, spanish, accident investigation, arrest/search/seizure, juvenile issues, gangs, U.S. and state constitution, domestic violence, and others; but too bad people don't get tested before commenting on LEO's moronic actions without knowing what all is involved in their training and what options they have available

I agree, there is nothing a ten year old could do to require this. If it was my kid that got tasered no matter what the reason I would be suing somebody.

nothing....hmmm seems assaulting someone requires action to stop it and if I were to take a 10 year old to the ground as I'm trained they would probably get hurt so a little shock to convince them to stop and keep either of us from getting hurt sounds like a good option to me
nothing........hmmmmm, I almost SHOT an 11 year old with my PISTOL, not taser, recently, would you and others have said the same thing about me in that situation had I been forced to pull the trigger? if the kid would have shot me then it would be another case of an evil kid and nobody did anything about it before they got this bad

2ndAmend
I am not a very big guy 5'7" and 140 lbs but I have never seen a 10 year old that could take me. If the officer could not handle a 10 yr old girl then he needs to look at getting another job. JMHO

when you're a LEO and are restricted on what you can/can't do in certain situations with physical force it changed the game entirely, I'm 6'4" 215 and there isn't a 10 year old that can take me either....but at what cost?....at what injury to them? if another option such as a taser is available and keeps me from sending a kid to the hospital to get stitches, etc wouldn't that be better?

[Hopyard]

64 Zebra wrote: "but I agree with you and others that intervening ONLY in the area of the kid not taking a shower is absurd,"

In other words, he was doing something he shouldn't have been doing.

Zebra 64 wrote: " stopping someone from assaulting us is well within our authority"

Provided you are acting within the scope of your duties-- note the situation, and tell me who assaulted who?

Zebra64 wrote: "LEO using one on the job to control a subject, pretty black and white to me"

Change the word "subject" to "child" in the above quote and the whole sentence sounds different, doesn't it.

If you have come to the point where a 10 year old is a "subject," that you treat like an "object," you need to go back to school and learn something, and I'm not talking about grammar.

Bottom line, the guy was fired and an FBI investigation is on-going. We won't know more until someday maybe more details come out from the investigation and whatever civil or criminal trials follow.

[64zebra]

64 Zebra wrote: "but I agree with you and others that intervening ONLY in the area of the kid not taking a shower is absurd,"

In other words, he was doing something he shouldn't have been doing.
nope, he was taking the kid to youth detention for reasons we do not know yet and then he was assaulted, I guess I didn't explain myself completely....an officer being called just for a kid not taking a shower is absurd, however we do not know all the details of what all happened, but once he was assaulted it changed the situation

Zebra 64 wrote: " stopping someone from assaulting us is well within our authority"

Provided you are acting within the scope of your duties-- note the situation, and tell me who assaulted who?
story said the officer was taking the kid to youth detention for reasons we do not know yet...that is within the scope of his duties, I'll tell you who assaulted who....just like the story and officer's report says.....the kid assaulted the officer, I thought that was fairly obvious
Zebra64 wrote: "LEO using one on the job to control a subject, pretty black and white to me"

Change the word "subject" to "child" in the above quote and the whole sentence sounds different, doesn't it.
nope, not to people that don't wear political correctness glasses, subject is anyone 7 to 70, male or female, doesn't matter, political correctness has infused itself into too many people's brains
I pointed my gun at an 11 year old recently to control him (and almost shot him) since I was faced with possible threat of deadly force, didn't matter if I called him child, suspect, kid, juvenile, subject, boy or whatever

If you have come to the point where a 10 year old is a "subject," that you treat like an "object," you need to go back to school and learn something, and I'm not talking about grammar.
I never said nor implied that I treat or regard kids like objects. Those of us in the LEO world or those who actually have educated themselves in such matters, know that the term subject is used to describe persons in incidents whether they may be suspects, victims, or witnesses. This is common and is not demeaning, insulting, or offensive. Its a general term. I don't need to go back to school to learn anything based in your world from behind your blinders that keep you from seeing what happens in the real world of LE, and that cops should evaluate everything based on feelings and political correctness

Bottom line, the guy was fired and an FBI investigation is on-going. We won't know more until someday maybe more details come out from the investigation and whatever civil or criminal trials follow.

and he was fired for the taser video not being activated (which should happen automatically, don't know why it wasn't working), not anything to do with his handling of the kid, deployment (decision to use the taser), or any other reason

we agree, we don't have the details, and I'm sure this will go on for awhile
I've said all I can say on this and I'm sure others will still disagree and thats fine.

I have to go now and pick up my son from school, then go to the station and have my taser info downloaded since I used it to control a subject last night so that me and 2 other officers didn't have to fight a man in a house last night most likely injuring him and use and destroying the living room.

[sigmanluke]

As another LEO, I agree 100% with 64zebra. Hopyard...YOU ARE WRONG, the taser was the best option given the details we have.

[Hopyard]

As another LEO, I agree 100% with 64zebra. Hopyard...YOU ARE WRONG, the taser was the best option given the details we have.

We are going round in circles. Bottom line, use really bad judgment in any job and your boss will find a way to come down on you. When it happens, it may be for something unrelated to what you actually did, but that's the way it goes.

As someone wrote earlier in this thread, I am absolutely shocked that so many "adults" here think this was appropriate.

Over and out ---whatever.