Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl - Page 4

Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl

This is a discussion on Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard While tasers clearly have their proper use and place in the range of things to be done, they are potentially lethal ...

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Thread: Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl

  1. #46
    Lead Moderator Array HotGuns's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    While tasers clearly have their proper use and place in the range of things to be done, they are potentially lethal as has been demonstrated by very many deaths associated with their use.

    However much they have been tested on healthy adults, their use on adults with heart disease (rhythm issues) is necessarily problematic; and there are plenty of adults walking around with such issues.

    NOW, is there any safety evidence one way or the other concerning this device on children? Is there any safety data especially with younger children?

    Pre-adolescent children, and even younger adolescents are NOT just small adults. Their bodies work differently.

    Without safety data on tasers with respect to kids that age I would think the use of the taser is utterly irresponsible. It is as irresponsible as using a baton to the head or a gun.

    If the kid died, who would we blame? Mom? The Cop? Both? The taser manufacturer?

    You don't use potentially lethal force on a ten year old!!!!

    You don't use lethal force on a ten year old.

    If you can't think of a better way you shouldn't be dealing with kids.
    I'll address each statement one at time here.

    Lethality with Tasers is generally connected with other outstanding issues such as heart condition, or drug or alcohol abuse. Generally, a healthy person has little to fear from being tased, thus the popularity of their use.

    As for being tested on younger children, we know that they suffer no ill effects, certainly less than a good whippin. Safety data would mean that somewhere at sometime some children got tased and data was compiled on them. I doubt that happened, I mean, who would volunteer their kids for that? They have been tested on various animals will no ill effects. The longer we go, the more we'll see out of control children tased. If it were me, I wouldn't stop there, I'd get the parents too.

    As for irresponsible, not hardly. As Sixto mentioned, it is now standard protocol to use a taser on someone that refuses verbal commands. The common misconception here is that it is only used for a potentially lethal confrontation and that is false.

    Most Polices Dept's are using it to avoid injury to both the officer and the offender. Had the officer went hands on with the kid and in the struggle the kid was hurt in any way, in the end it'll cost the dept. a small fortune, whether they get sued for hurting the kid, or if the officer gets hurt and had to take time off or gets workman's comp, either way its a no win situation.

    As a result of this, the taser is seeing more use.

    As for being potentially lethal, what isn't? A spanking can and does break bones, a hand slap can do the same.

    Sure it can be lethal. We always hear about some meth head dieing because his heart finally popped or some old coot throwing a fit, getting tased and his pacemaker wigs out and he dies, and it's published in every form of news media for weeks and thats all that anyone remembers. Never mind that the percentage is way less than 1 percent, which does make it the safest form of compliance tool, and that is why they are becoming more popular.

    Now, here's the thing.

    Most of us on this forum have enough respect for each other and everyone else and most of us seem to have a little bit of common sense. Most of us when we were kids had a parent to put a foot in our tails when we were screwing up and no one even thought about calling the LAW when they saw a kid being disciplined. If your kid was in a store acting the fool, you expected the parent to handle it.

    Because of the way we were brought up, we have a very hard time understanding little else because that is what we know.

    Times have changed. Now,we have kids that cant even identify who their real parents are, never mind get any discipline from them. The young parents growing up have been conditioned by fools to believe that its a crime to discipline their kids for any reason and that is it anyones responsibility but theirs to raise their kids. You are now seeing the results of socialism and dumbed down kids growing up and having little monsters just to get a bigger check from the government that encourages such things.

    Yes, kids will get tased and they will continue to. The cops doing it are stuck between a rock and hard place and people that dont understand this only make it harder for them.
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  2. #47
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Don't believe it. You reckon they got 10 year old volunteers and did physiological studies on their little body's reactions to the shock? How the heck would Taser know one way or the other if it is safe on kids? They'd be prosecuted for child abuse if they tried to do any such testing.

    The Taser is untested in children; it is proven potentially lethal and is in fact deadly in a small number of apparently healthy adults.

    Its use on a 10 year old is utterly irresponsible and anyone doing that is --if there is a bad outcome-- is going to inevitably have a charge lodged against them. And properly so.
    Oh really? How many Taser trainings have you attended? Or how about nationwide study's you have participated in? How many certifications do you hold in Taser or other use of force issues? How about being called from both prosecution and defense attorney to testify as an expert witness? My phone rings fairly often.

    Debate me if you wish, I'll do so friendly like all night. But calling me a liar pisses me off.

    Oh yeah, I almost forgot. Here is some reading material you might want to study if you want to continue the debate. I got more if you want it. This is just what is easy to find right now.


    Comparison of Acidosis Markers Associated with Law Enforcement Applications of Force
    Ho J, Dawes D, Lundin E, Miner J. American College of Emergency Physicians 2009 Scientific Assembly. 2009
    Pulse variations of a conducted energy weapon (similar to the TASER X26 device): effects on muscle contraction and threshold for ventricular fibrillation.
    CW Beason, JR Jauchem, CD Clark 3rd, JE Parker, and DA Fines. J Forensic Sci 1 Sep 2009 54(5): p. 1113
    Acidosis in Simulated Arrest Scenarios
    The Fifth Mediterranean Emergency Medicine Congress (MEMC V). September 14‐17 2009
    Can Prolonged TASER X26 Exposure or Continued Exertion Contribute to Sudden Cardiac Death Through Worsening Acidosis?
    Ho, J.D., et al CardioRythm, Hong Kong: Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Hennepin County Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Lompoc Valley Medical Center, Lompoc, CA.
    Immediate cardiovascular effects of the Taser X26 conducted electrical
    W P Bozeman, D G Barnes, Jr, J E Winslow, III, J C Johnson, III, C H Phillips, and R Alson Emerg. Med. J. 2009; 26(8): p. 567-570
    Lactate and pH evaluation in exhausted humans with prolonged TASER X26 exposure or continued exertion.
    Ho JD, Dawes DM, Cole JB, Hottinger JC, Overton KG, Miner JR. Forensic Sci Int. Jun 16 2009.
    Catecholamines in Simulated Arrest Scenarios
    Ho J. et al, ACEM Winter Symposium. Darwin Northern Territory, Australia; 2009
    Presenting Rhythm in Sudden Deaths Temporally Proximate to Discharge of TASER Conducted Electrical
    Swerdlow C, Fishbein M, Chaman L, Lakkireddy D, Tchou P. Society for Academic Emergency Medicine. May 2009;16:1‐13.
    Prolonged TASER use on exhausted humans does not worsen markers of acidosis
    Ho J, Dawes D, Bultman L, Moscati R, Janchar T, Miner J. American Journal of Emergency Medicine. 2009;27(4):413‐418.
    Multiple Simultaneous Exposures Electronic Control Devices (ECDs) in Human Volunteers
    Ho, J.D., D.M. Dawes, and J.R. Miner 2009, CardioRythm, Hong Kong: Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Hennepin County Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN Dept. of Emergency Medicine, Lompoc Valley Medical Center, Lompoc, CA
    Physiologic Effects of Prolonged Conducted Electrical Weapon Discharge on Acidotic Adults.
    Ho J, Dawes D, Bultman L, et al. Acad Emerg Med 2007;14(5):63.
    Taser® Wound Progression in Two Deployment Modes
    Donald M. Dawes, MD; Jeffrey D. Ho, MD..Pathology/Biology. American Academy of Forensic Science 2009.
    Safety and Injury Profile of Conducted Electrical Weapons Used
    William P. Bozeman, MD Annals of Emergency Medicine Jan 2009
    The neuroendocrine effects of the TASER X26®: A brief report
    Forensic Science International , Volume 183 , Issue 1 - 3 , Pages 14 - 19 D . Dawes , J . Ho , J . Miner
    The Physiologic Effects of Multiple Simultaneous Electronic Control Device Discharges
    Dawes D, Ho J, Reardon R, Miner J. Hennepin County Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN Lompoc Valley Medical Center, Lompoc, CA: Caribbean Emergency MedicineCongress 2009
    Introduction of a Electronic Control Device in a Hostpital Setting: Eight Months of Use:
    Ho J, Heegaard W, Dawes D, Miner J. Hennipin County Medical Center Lompoc Valley Medical Center; Caribbean Emergency Medicine Congress 2009
    Shock Value: A Comparative Analysis of News Reports and Official Police Records on TASER Deployments
    Ready J, White MD, Fisher C Policing. 2008;31(1):148-170.
    Conductive electrical devices: a prospective, population-based study of the medical safety of law enforcement use
    Eastman, A.L., et al. J Trauma, 2008. 64(6): p. 1567-72
    Theoretical Possibility of Ventricular Fibrillation During Use of TASER Neuromuscular Incapacitation Devices
    Panescu D, Kroll M, Stratbucker R. 30th Annual International IEEE EMBS Conference: St Jude Medical; 2008
    Serum troponin I measurement of subjects exposed to the Taser X-26
    Sloane CM, Chan TC, Levine SD, Dunford JV, Neuman T, Vilke GM J Emerg Med. Jul 2008;35(1):29-32.
    Echocardiographic Evaluation of a TASER-X26 Application in the Ideal Human Cardiac Axis.
    Ho JD, Dawes DM, Reardon RF, et al. Acad Emerg Med. Aug 10 2008.
    Presenting Rhythm in Sudden Custodial Deaths After Use of TASER® Electronic Control Device
    Swerdlow, C., M. W. Kroll, et al. (2008) Cedars-Sinai Medical Center, Los Angeles, CA, University of Minnesota, Minneapolis, MN San Marcos Police Department, San Marcos, TX University of Kansas Medical Center, Kansas City, KS, Cleveland Clinic, Cleveland, OH. Hearty Rythm Society 2008
    Echocardiographic Evaluation of Human Transcutaneous TASER® Application Along the Cardiac Axis
    Ho, J. D., D. M. Dawes, et al. (2008) Hennepin County Medical Center, Minneapolis, MN, Lompoc District Hospital, Lompoc, CA, Heart Rythm Society 2008.
    Viewpoint: Rhetoric v. Reality
    Jeffrey D. Ho, MD, Emergency Medicine News 02/08
    Viewpoint: 'Death by Tasercution' Rare
    Chistian Sloan, MD & Gary Vilke, MD, Emergency Medicine News. 02/08
    15-Second conducted electrical weapon exposure does not cause core temperature elevation in non-environmentally stressed resting adults
    Dawes DM, Ho JD, Johnson MA, Lundin E, Janchar TA, Miner JR. 15-Second conducted electrical weapon exposure does not cause core temperature elevation in non-environmentally stressed resting adults. Forensic Sci Int. Nov 3 2007
    The Impact of the Taser on Suspect Resistance: Identifying Predictors of Effectiveness
    Michael D. White, Ph.D* and Justin Ready, Ph.D John Jay College of Criminal Justice
    STUNNING TRENDS IN SHOCKING CRIMES: A COMPREHENSIVE ANALYSIS OF TASER
    by Shaun H. Kedir, 20 Journal of Law and Health (Cleveland State University), 2007, 357-384.
    Twelve-lead electrocardiogram monitoring of subjects before and after voluntary exposure to the Taser X26
    Vilke GM, Sloane C, Levine S, Neuman T, Castillo E, Chan TC. Am J Emerg Med. Jan 2008;26(1):1-4.
    Injury Profile of Electrical Conducted Energy Weapons
    William Bozeman American College of Emergency Physicians Scientific Assembly October 2007
    Cardiac Current Density Distribution by Electrical Pulses from TASER devices
    Kroll MW, McDaniel W, Panescu D, Stratbucker RA., Conf Proc IEEE Eng Med Biol Soc. 2006;1(1):6305-6307
    Do electrical stun guns (TASER-X26) affect the functional integrity of implantable pacemakers and defibrillators?
    Lakkireddy D, Khasnis A, Antenacci J, et al Europace. May 9 2007.
    Serum Troponin I Measurement of Subjects Exposed to the Taser X-26.
    Vilke G, Sloane C, Levine S, Neuman T, Castillo E, Chan T Acad Emerg Med 2007;14(5):104.
    Does the Taser Cause Electrical Changes in Twelve Lead ECG Monitoring of Human Subjects.
    Vilke G, Sloane C, Levine S, Neuman T, Castillo E, Chan T.Acad Emerg Med 2007;14(5):104.
    Conducted Electrical Weapons – A Review of the Medical Literature
    Donald M. Dawes, MD; Jeffrey D. Ho, MD. Pathology/Biology. American Academy of Forensic Science 2009
    "Just blame Sixto"

  3. #48
    Member Array Leopard125's Avatar
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    I've raised 3 boys all 1 year apart,(say My boys are 15,16,17 real fast once)I never thought I would see the day they are 18,19,20
    now.
    And have a wonderful little girl right now(12yo)
    Man I could have used a tazer a couple times

    Parent your own kids, and don't call the cops when your sucky sorry a$$ parent skills cannot control your 10yo.

    We should bring back the board(paddle) in school to

  4. #49
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post

    Who do we blame if the kid dies? Here is a novel idea; blame the person who started the chain of events.

    And yes, for the most part, cops should not be dealing with kids. Because the parents don't, the job often falls into the cops lap. It shouldn't be, but it is what it is.

    In a day when adults don't take responsibility for their own actions it's impossible to expect their children to, but I agree with your statement whole heartedly. Once the little imp kicked at the officer the kid gloves (pardon the pun) have to come off. When using H2H many painful injuries that will be much longer lasting can take place.
    This shows how many people want to have kids without becoming parents. We have a local movie theater closing do to parents dropping their kids off at night and the kids raising hell and expecting everyone else to tolerate them.
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  5. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by searcher 45 View Post
    Don't know much but after raising 5 children that have turned out very well, I would say the time to win these battles is when the children are 2 and 3 years old. This 10 year old not only does not know how to behave her self and does not know the voice of authority in her life. She should respond to her mother voice and obey that voice and that is tough when they are 2 and 3 years old.
    Exactly.

    Personally I don't think police should be tasing kids and old ladies. I don't think it should be the next step above verbal commands either. How many stories like this will it take before public perception turns so far against tasers that states like California, NY and NJ decide that police shouldn't be carrying them? Then they'll be left without it when they really do need it. Just my $.02.

  6. #51
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    re: sixto--didn't call you a liar; please re-read post

    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Oh really? How many Taser trainings have you attended? Or how about nationwide study's you have participated in? How many certifications do you hold in Taser or other use of force issues? How about being called from both prosecution and defense attorney to testify as an expert witness? My phone rings fairly often.

    Debate me if you wish, I'll do so friendly like all night. But calling me a liar pisses me off.
    Didn't call you a liar. What I wrote was a comment that I disbelieve anything the taser maker has to say about safety in children.

    When someone puts up a real cite to real research demonstrating safety in children--- preferably not funded by the company or by parties with an interest in the outcome--- I'll pay attention.

    Meanwhile, I'll say it one last time. Ten year olds are not little adults. And, the lethality of the taser is well known.

    Its use on a non-compliant and violent adult is one thing. Its use on a child is child abuse. It isn't morally justified. And it will result in someone getting charged if there is a death. Believe that part.

  7. #52
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    Do I think that 10 year olds should be tased, no. I can think of very rare circumstances when it would be justified. This particular story is definately not one of them.

    That being said, I don't think that the police should have been involved in the situation in the first place to have been in a possition to consider tasing the child. Is not minding your parents a valid reason to have the police called out to the home and the officer carry you into another part of the house and tell you that your going to jail? IANAL, but I doubt that many states have statutes covering this.

    Apparently the officer was able to move the child one time without getting kicked in the groin, maybe he should have just cuffed her at the initial contact when she was already laying on the floor instead of moving her to another room.

    I don't know what this departments or other police department policy is, but making children mind their parents or intervening in a childs temper tantrum would definately not be on my list of department policies. If the child was not a danger to themselves or other members of the household, the parent should be told to get a grip on their kid and the officer call dispatch and report back in service.

    This is a screwed up deal that never should have happened.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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    Quote Originally Posted by skot View Post
    Exactly.

    Personally I don't think police should be tasing kids and old ladies. I don't think it should be the next step above verbal commands either. How many stories like this will it take before public perception turns so far against tasers that states like California, NY and NJ decide that police shouldn't be carrying them? Then they'll be left without it when they really do need it. Just my $.02.
    So what's the next step when they get kicked in the groin? I would say this was a case when they really did need it.
    I would say the easiest way to turn public perception on any subject is to let the media run with it as they do with firearms.
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    I have read several opinions stating that tasers should not be used on out of control children. Would anyone care to offer an opinion on how a child that is out of control SHOULD be dealt with?
    Don't do things you don't want to explain to the Paramedics!

    Stupidity should be painful.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevem174 View Post
    Would anyone care to offer an opinion on how a child that is out of control SHOULD be dealt with?
    The way parents dealt with spoiled brats for hundreds of years before the nanny state got involved.
    My parents would not have allowed it to get to that point. I learned BEFORE I was 10 that tantrums would not gain me anything.
    My parents would never have called the police.
    The police would never have responded to something that stupid.
    And nobody would have been tasered.

    Quote Originally Posted by rottkeeper View Post
    So what's the next step when they get kicked in the groin?
    Oh my. I thought cops had some training. I guess I was wrong.
    Maybe Barney Fife got kicked in the groin.
    I thought every man above the age of 14 knows how to react.

    I can't believe what I'm reading. No wonder gun sales are through the roof.
    If cops can't protect themselves from a 10 yr old, they'll never protect us.

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    Quote Originally Posted by stevem174 View Post
    I have read several opinions stating that tasers should not be used on out of control children. Would anyone care to offer an opinion on how a child that is out of control SHOULD be dealt with?
    What do you do when your child is out of control? Would CPS think it was ok if parents used taser on children that didn't comply with verbal commands.

    What do I do when my child gets out of control. Well since he is smart enough not to have done it yet, and hopefully he will remain smart enough not to ever do it in my presence I don't have to worry about it.
    Just remember that shot placement is much more important with what you carry than how big a bang you get with each trigger pull.
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  12. #57
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    Quote Originally Posted by skot View Post
    Exactly.

    Personally I don't think police should be tasing kids and old ladies. I don't think it should be the next step above verbal commands either. How many stories like this will it take before public perception turns so far against tasers that states like California, NY and NJ decide that police shouldn't be carrying them? Then they'll be left without it when they really do need it. Just my $.02.
    Kids and old ladies should be obeying commands from police officers, and not trying to fight them either. What if the officer had used small joint manipulations to try and control the child, and broken the kids arm? Would you consider that better or worse than tazing the child?

    Parenting is certainly at fault here, I hate parents who can't control their kids, and who try to be their friends. But that is a sociological issue and not really worth going into here.

    There have been a couple of times I would have been completely justified in using lethal force on children in the 8-12 year old range (on my Iraq deployment), but instead opted for less lethal means that put me at greater risk (thankfully nothing happened). Had I had a taser and training, I would have tazed them without a second thought. Call me callous, but thats the way I see it.
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    re: Hot Guns

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    I'll address each statement one at time here.

    Lethality with Tasers is generally connected with other outstanding issues such as heart condition, or drug or alcohol abuse. Generally, a healthy person has little to fear from being tased, thus the popularity of their use.
    A child is not the same as an adult. Moreover, sometimes really really bad behavior and tantrums in kids can be an indication of a health issue.

    As for being tested on younger children, we know that they suffer no ill effects, certainly less than a good whippin.
    How do we know that? Taser's advertising?
    Safety data would mean that somewhere at sometime some children got tased and data was compiled on them. I doubt that happened, I mean, who would volunteer their kids for that?
    You just made exactly my point. It is possible for Taser company to have tested the taser on adult volunteers. It is in fact tested on adult volunteers every single time someone agrees to be tased for a demo.

    Unfortunately, there is no ethical, moral, or legal way to test the safety of the taser on children. Therefore, any claims of safety
    are based either on wishful or hopeful thinking, or at best on a very small number of real world cases--- after all, how often does it happen that a ten year old gets tased? Do you think the company
    has compiled even a couple of dozen real world instances of it happening? We are talking about it here, and it is news, precisely because it is a very rare event. Otherwise, of course, it wouldn't be news.

    To use a device which is known to cause death (regardless of the presence of additional health issues) in adults on a child is the worst sort of abuse.

    They have been tested on various animals will no ill effects. The longer we go, the more we'll see out of control children tased.
    testing on animals isn't a guarantee of anything much. Children not only aren't little adults, they aren't animals either-- no matter how much they misbehave and act like animals.

    I agree with you, we will see more instances of tasers being used on children. That says nothing good about our parenting (as a society), our children, the policies of various departments which will allow it, or the judgment of the officer who actually uses it.

    If it were me, I wouldn't stop there, I'd get the parents too.
    I gather there is general agreement on that point by the participants here.

    As for irresponsible, not hardly. As Sixto mentioned, it is now standard protocol to use a taser on someone that refuses verbal commands.
    So, how young is too young? Where does it stop? A baby won't obey verbal commands either.

    I have no doubt that if a parent tased an out of control ten year old and the kid reported that fact at school, the parent would be charged.

    The common misconception here is that it is only used for a potentially lethal confrontation and that is false.
    OK

    Most Polices Dept's are using it to avoid injury to both the officer and the offender.
    That is fine.
    Had the officer went hands on with the kid and in the struggle the kid was hurt in any way, in the end it'll cost the dept. a small fortune,
    Same as if the kid croaked. And same as if tomorrow the parent who called the cops in the first place goes to see their attorney and files a civil suit for excessive force.

    [quote]
    As for being potentially lethal, what isn't? [/quote[

    You know, I have seen good elementary school principals deal with the most unruly and out of control kids with nothing more than soft words. There are plenty of folks who would have known how to calm that situation we are discussing instead of making it as bad as the idiot parents who called the cops.

    A spanking can and does break bones, a hand slap can do the same.
    Hmmmm. Only if inappropriately hard force is used. And then, someone is going to be charged with child abuse. So, I don't really see the point here. Two wrongs don't make a right.
    Abusing a child --however it is done-- is still abuse. Too bad no one was "THE ADULT" in this situation.

    Sure it can be lethal. We always hear about some meth head dieing
    That is the handy excuse. It ignores all the instances in which folks who weren't meth heads died.

    Never mind that the percentage is way less than 1 percent, which does make it the safest form of compliance tool, and that is why they are becoming more popular.
    Great. But the less than 1% you are speaking of is within the adult population. Not pre-pubescent kiddos.

    [quote] Now, here's the thing.

    Yes, kids will get tased and they will continue to. The cops doing it are stuck between a rock and hard place and people that dont understand this only make it harder for them.
    I don't know how to respond to that comment. My knee jerk reaction is to answer as a wise guy would and sarcastically state that if the cop had brains he would find a better way to deal with a child. But, I do understand that you guys get caught between a rock and a hard place. I'm not so sure the cop involved in this incident was however really in such a position. As someone else already pointed out, a child having a temper tantrum at home isn't a crime. What might have been the outcome if a teacher or anyone else skilled in dealing with small kids had been called? Would anyone have been endangered in anyway by simply letting the kid throw her temper till she fell asleep?

    I know you and sixto and several others are the good guys and do a tough job. I'd like to see a little less knee jerk defense of inappropriate police conduct when it happens. And again, this wouldn't be a news story, nor would we be discussing it here, if it was ordinary.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    I know you and sixto and several others are the good guys and do a tough job. I'd like to see a little less knee jerk defense of inappropriate police conduct when it happens. And again, this wouldn't be a news story, nor would we be discussing it here, if it was ordinary.
    Its not a knee jerk response at all. Its a matter of explaining the way things are and a little of why they are the way they are. You are getting a response from a guy who does this everyday, and is considered an expert on the topic.

    There is no inappropriate police conduct in the story. It actually fits what most policy and procedure's of departments across the country. It fits policy written by a company called Lexipol. That company creates police policy with liability and litigation in mind for police departments around the country. Its written by lawyers and experts for the same reasons I have mentioned already in this thread.

    And it is a very ordinary scenario. The only reason it made the news is somebody started squawking or a reporter got a hold of it somehow. I had a very similar situation I responded to on Friday. An out of control 10 year old had himself in a very dangerous position, and was threatening to kill himself. The mother asked me to tase him. The father was there, but bed ridden. I ended up wrestling the kid. Yes, it was no match. No, I didn't hurt the kid. And no, I didnt use the Taser... but I should have. I ended up in the ER getting a tetanus shot, costing the city a fair amount of money.

    A possible kid vs. Taser incident happens at least once a week where I work. And my call volume is no where near what a big cities would be. Of course, we all try to avoid tasing a kid, none of us want that. However, the bean counters will say that is the best option, simply because it is easier to defend a injury or even death after a Taser incident than it is a hands on fight.

    Here is an example;
    Pretend you are a defense attorney preparing for a trial. The charge is murder.

    Would you rather come up with a defense for a client who used a gun to kill his victim, or a client who killed his victim with his bare hands?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  15. #60
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    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    I can't believe what I'm reading. No wonder gun sales are through the roof.
    If cops can't protect themselves from a 10 yr old, they'll never protect us.

    Police Academy Training session: Day 1. "Here's your taser. Congratulations, you're an officer. You start tomorrow."
    Certainly any cop worth a damn can protect himself and his boys from a ten year old. However, anybody who has actually had to fight a kid knows that things can and do happen. The premise of the fight is always to not hurt the kid, to just gain control. Already, you are behind the 8 ball. Then, the kid sneaks in a cheap shot, intentional or not. Hell, my own boy has got me before play fighting or sparing. He's a purple belt in Tae Kwon Do, he can do some damage if that is his intention. I'm bigger, stronger and more skilled, but things do happen...

    Anybody who has been in police work more than a few hours knows that things dont go as planned. This officer got put in a bad situation and potentially put out of service with the cheap shot; he responded as he should have to end the fight. If it was about power getting his kicks with pain, why didn't he give the kid a full ride? Instead, he chose to give whats known as a "nip" or "bite". A very minimal use of the Taser to regain control. What were his other options? Please, do tell.

    Quote Originally Posted by farronwolf View Post
    What do you do when your child is out of control? Would CPS think it was ok if parents used taser on children that didn't comply with verbal commands.
    A completely different set of circumstances, don't you think?
    "Just blame Sixto"

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