Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl

This is a discussion on Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by mojust Don't people have to pass a basic intelligence test to go to the police academy? This is moronic beyond description. Typically, ...

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Thread: Arkansas Police Use Taser on 10-Year-Old Girl

  1. #76
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojust View Post
    Don't people have to pass a basic intelligence test to go to the police academy? This is moronic beyond description.
    Typically, yes they do. Its more of a common sense test though. But it doesn't take much intelligence to figure out that you are given tools, knowledge and skill to avoid certain outcomes and actions. It also doesn't take much intelligence to figure out its better to let your tools to the work in which they are designed to do, that is why you have them. To bad intelligence is not the same as common sense. Its also to bad that stupid people can procreate as well.

    But you don't have to pass any tests in order to post an opinion based on no knowledge on the internet.

    ...and I'm accused of knee jerk reactions. LOL.
    "Just blame Sixto"

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  3. #77
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mr. Habib View Post
    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    A ten year old child in a tantrum needs to be cuffed-and-stuffed so badly? Jail, for not following Mom's instructions?
    The ten year old was Tased and arrested after kicking the officer repeatedly in the legs and groin. She was charged with assaulting a police officer.
    Sure, the Tasing was for cause. I suppose if a child is going ballistic, you either use three people, duct tape, a quick Taser zap, the white jacket, or ... Not a lot of choices to severe disregard and willingness to attack, even if only 10yrs old I suppose.

    As Tiwee suggests: it's a good lesson to learn, earlier rather than later, that it's not okay to attack police. It can lead to a bad, ugly road in life. This little groin-kicking tornado is going to learn it a bit earlier than expected. Hopefully she learns, and hopefully between Mom and police she's going to get the clue that she's risking the full, unabashed flushing of her life down the Johnnie if she continues down the path of flailing on police. 10yrs old. Hmph.

    LEO's: Y'all have a tough job. You have my respect, and my condolences for situations like these.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  4. #78
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    Again, there's no excuse. You all maybe didn't even pay attention to what started this incident.

    Mom called the cops because the kid wouldn't get into the shower before bed!

    Is it a cop's job to get the kid to bed?

    This case differs dramatically from the one Sixto mentioned that he was involved in because in that instance the kid per Sixto was attempting to harm himself. What was this kid doing-- disobeying a parent's demand to get unskunked? Is that the law's business?

    (And, being really cynical-- were any questions asked as to why the kid wouldn't get into the shower? Had she been molested there? Were photos about to be taken? Just asking to point out that running in and fighting with the kid and tasing her without figuring out what was going on wasn't real brainy either.)

    As for the safety issue, Barkn doesn't persuade. He knows very well that electric shock can disrupt heart rhythm and until it is known that this device is safe in children there is an unacceptable risk.

    What is wrong with you guys? You seem to no longer know or understand the difference between an adult and a child. Possibly you no longer even recognize the boundaries of where your authority and duties lie.

    Again, I know you all are good guys, but I can't accept the tasing of a 10 year old in the circumstances described--or even the involvement of the police other than to make certain the child was safe. CPS could have been called. Teachers could have been called. Perhaps paramedics could have been called.
    Mostly though, the officer could have walked. His presence at the scene wasn't needed as no law had been broken.

  5. #79
    VIP Member Array wmhawth's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojust View Post
    Don't people have to pass a basic intelligence test to go to the police academy? This is moronic beyond description.
    Would you prefer the officer physically managed the juvenile to gain compliance? Pain compliance by use of pressure point technique perhaps, or maybe just a rodeo? What do you consider the safest and most humane way to physically control an out of control juvenile in a scenario such as this officer was involved in?

  6. #80
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Mom called the cops because the kid wouldn't get into the shower before bed!

    Is it a cop's job to get the kid to bed?
    That's the basic problem I've got with the whole situation.

    It is NOT the role of police to force a "fair" exchange for your Mc-DLT. Nor is it the role of police to get your 10yr old, unruly terror of a 10yr old child into the bathtub. If mommy can't cope, then she needs to decide: more forceful measures; the "military" academy type approach to education; giving up the child to an orphanage or adoption; or ...

    We don't have all the facts, of course, but calling Police simply doesn't seem the right course of action. Not for a bathtub tantrum.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  7. #81
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    Hopyard, I agree with you to a point. Since you brought up paying attention, lets take another look and the very first sentance in the news story;

    Ozark Police Chief Jim Noggle says one of his officers used a Taser on a 10-year-old girl who was combative when the officer tried to get the girl into a patrol car to be taken to a youth shelter.
    Yes, this was not a matter for the police as it is related in the news story. However, I know that you know that the media rarely has all the facts, and the "facts" they do get are often wrong or misrepresented. Obviously, there is more to the story otherwise the girl would not have been removed from the home. Maybe she was being removed because of her behavior, maybe because of an abusive situation. We don't know why. But the girl was being taken into cusotdy for a reason, and that reason is none of our business. Lets not assume that the officer just charged in and started Tasing sweetheart. We simply do not know the entire story, what was asked and what was not. We don't know if the officer was on scene for 30 seconds or two hours. We do know, because we didn't ignore the first sentence, that the girl was being taken into custody, and the Taser incident didn't even happen inside the home. Making the assumption that the officer charged in kicked ass and took names isn't very brainy, now is it?
    We also don't know the history of this family. Typically in cases like this, officers have been to the home several times in the past.

    I can think of three laws that were broken just from reading the story.

    1st was unruly child. Yes, it is a real law prosecutable in a juvenile court.

    2nd is resisting arrest.

    3rd is assaulting a P.O.

    2 and 3 both can justify the use of a Taser.

    The question has been asked a few times already. If you (not just Hopyard, all the Monday morning QB's) think you know better, what is your solution? What would you have done in the same circumstance?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  8. #82
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    Quote Originally Posted by paramedic70002 View Post
    The sad thing is, if you do your job as a parent when things get tough, you are taking a chance that some government nanny will accuse you of abuse, lock you up, and put your kids in foster care.

    If the LEO had taken the kid kicking and screaming, he could have been accused of assault.

    Parents are encouraged to let the government take care of their problem children. LEOs are encouraged to use Tasers to avoid personal injury.

    When the government gets too intrusive, it leaves no good options, only safe ones that are never in the best interest of a free society.
    Well said. Government and "free society" are mutually exclusive.

  9. #83
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    They say that "If your only tool is a hammer, all problems are nails."

    If you call someone who's tools are guns, restraints, and Tasers, well, you know what is going to happen.

    -1 for the Mom
    Last edited by Mountaineer; November 19th, 2009 at 10:38 AM. Reason: adding -1 for the Mom

  10. #84
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    Some 10 year olds really do need help beyond the skills of a parent. My 9 year old has recently gotten out of control several times, mostly when I am at work. He has missed school several days by refusing to go after I leave for work. He tries to dominate his mother to get his way, to the point of threatening physical harm to his little brother, threatening to burn down the house, threatening to kill himself, and picking up a steak knife and threatening his mother. He plays keepaway by running around the kitchen island. At the first sign of a confrontation, that's where he goes.

    Funny thing, when he calms down, he verbalizes that he needs help, because he can't control himself. He has even hinted at visions of beasts, which has brought us to consider an exorcism.

    I was a model child compared to my son. I never would have thought of doing or saying the things he has, and so don't have a basis for understanding or reaction. He's been through some tough issues the last few years. One Grandmother died, and we moved into her house. Another Grandmother fighting cancer, plus her and Grandpa moved far away. New neighborhood with no children within walking distance. New school. A while back wife and I separated for a few months. Arrival of little brother. I can see how his world has been rocked.

    We have started the process of counseling, and it seems to have helped a lot. We also have a mild sedative to administer as needed.

    I don't put up with his misbehavior, and he knows it, which is why it usually doesn't happen when I'm home. My wife says having him be afraid of me is counterproductive. I say a little fear of your parent's reaction to bad behavior is healthy. It's not like he cowers from me. 99% of the time things between us are fine. But when he misbehaves the first thing he does is look at me to see how I am going to react.

    Last night he got pretty froggy over not doing his homework, so I sent him to his room, but he refused. This was especially disturbing since his Grandparents are visiting from out of state, and he seldom acts up in their presence.

    I tried to get him at the island but couldn't. I threw one of his toys in the trash. That stunned him long enough for me to get my hands on him. I had to pick him up and carry him to his room, all the while he was struggling against me. Once in his room, he picked up a souvenir bowling pin and began beating on the door. I took it away from him and told him in no uncertain terms that beating on the door was unacceptable, and what the consequences would be. He immediately did it again with something else, all the while cursing and acting crazy. I reached back in the room and administered a correction, as promised. He screamed, he cried, but in the end it was like hitting a reset switch. A few minutes later he came out of his room and was quiet and polite the rest of the night.

    The reason for this long story, kids will test your authority and get out of control, but you have to show them you are the boss before they get old enough to get into real trouble. My wife and I have never been 100% consistent in our discipline, and that is a recipe for disaster. She also is more likely to be the 'softie' and I think now she is paying the price. It doesn't help that all of us are hard headed either, but that's another story.

    When it comes to disciplining your child:

    1. Don't be harsh, be reasonable.
    2. Don't debate discipline in front of the child.
    3. Don't modify discipline once assigned, whether it be yours or your spouse's.
    4. Have an advance plan for appropriate discipline.

    Do I think the 10 year old should have been Tased? Probably not, but having come quite close to having my own son hauled away by LEOs for the safety of my wife and other son, I can see how it may have been necessary.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

  11. #85
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    Quote Originally Posted by RA229 View Post
    There is no one that can convince me you need to use a taser on a 10 yr old. That goes beyond punishment, thats ABUSE period. Don't follow instructions?, dock her allowance, Sceaming on the floor?, ignor that behavior, it's harmless. Does any one know how to parent. As a Behavior Analyst I work with much worse than this, adolesants and adults with violant episodes. Reinforce good behavior and the maladaptive behavior fades. If tasers worked I would be using one 50 times a day.
    I agree, there is nothing a ten year old could do to require this. If it was my kid that got tasered no matter what the reason I would be suing somebody.

  12. #86
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    Quote Originally Posted by Landor View Post
    I agree, there is nothing a ten year old could do to require this. If it was my kid that got tasered no matter what the reason I would be suing somebody.
    Nothing?
    "Just blame Sixto"

  13. #87
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    Nothing..

    If a cop can't subdue a 10 year old without a taser then something is wrong.

    This has political correctness written all over it.

    Just my opinion. :)

  14. #88
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    Another sad parts is that handcuffs were needed to bring the girl to custody. Not even the plastic ties, but cuffs.

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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    ...give lawful order, its ignored, you deploy Taser.
    Only problem with that is that the person giving the order will always think it's lawful. Whether it actually is doesn't matter much to the person being tazed, until well after the fact.

  16. #90
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    Quote Originally Posted by SIXTO View Post
    Yes there is. It is available from Taser Intl. It has been tested and proven physiologically safe is persons as young as 7.
    Cite, please.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The Taser is untested in children; it is proven potentially lethal and is in fact deadly in a small number of apparently healthy adults.
    Cite, please.


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