Good idea, bad discipline, fatal result

Good idea, bad discipline, fatal result

This is a discussion on Good idea, bad discipline, fatal result within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; A girl being taught to shoot learned the terrible consequences of a negligent discharge. Let's teach kids to shoot SAFELY! The life you save could ...

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Thread: Good idea, bad discipline, fatal result

  1. #1
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    Unhappy Good idea, bad discipline, fatal result

    A girl being taught to shoot learned the terrible consequences of a negligent discharge. Let's teach kids to shoot SAFELY! The life you save could be your own.

    Full story is here. Quote follows:

    "According to the investigation, an ammunition round had jammed in a 9mm Glock that the girl was shooting. Barnhart, whose home they were at, removed the round, reinserted the magazine and cocked it. He then handed the girl the gun butt first, the Sheriff’s Office news release said. When she grabbed the gun by the butt, it discharged hitting Barnhart in the right upper arm area penetrating into his chest.

    The 60-year-old [Barnhart] died at the scene.

    Videos retrieved there showed that the juvenile shot various types of guns under the supervision of the pair over throughout the day. The Sheriff’s Office said the videos also showed a false sense of security had become clear as the target practice progressed, leading to a disregard of safety issues for gun handling. Details about who did the videotape and why were not provided."

    End of quote.



    An a separate train of thought, is it significant that the Glock --renowned for reliability-- jammed? Does that imply anything about the shooting conditions or weapon maintenance? dunno


  2. #2
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Its really a bad practice to hand off a loaded weapon... best is to make safe the firearm then hand it off to the shooter which can ready the firearm.

    as for the Glock thing... all guns will jam. Glocks are reliable. put cruddy ammo in any gun and it will have issues.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    Glocks arn't the 'end-all' by any means.....and there is NO substuition for ALWAYS following the 4 rules for safty!

    The lack of focus and disregard of common sense cost a life. That child is probley 'scarred' and hurting bad from that extreemly tragic experience.
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    "The Sheriff’s Office said the videos also showed a false sense of security had become clear as the target practice progressed, leading to a disregard of safety issues for gun handling"

    <Sigh>

    Why do people think to transfer firearms to each as butt/stock first anyway?
    This is shown very often on TV and in movies but who the heck thinks this is proper & safe?!!!

    Do not do this even if the firearm is unloaded...Unless you are an actor.

    - Janq

    P.S. - Now thanks to the dead man who effectively contributed to his own death, the student will never want to touch muchless see or hear about a gun ever again in life.
    Further she and her family members (and friends) may now from here forward become tolerant of if not embrace anti-gun political groups and legislation.
    All because of one person being stupid and his death being senseless. :|
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  5. #5
    Member Array Daveyj's Avatar
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    Terrible accident. It could have been easliy avoided with just a little more caution. Who says it's actually a Glock. I know the story calls it one, but you never know with the media.

  6. #6
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Its really a bad practice to hand off a loaded weapon... best is to make safe the firearm then hand it off to the shooter which can ready the firearm.
    I disagree. Think about the mechanics of the transfer here. Handing off the weapon butt first dramatically increases the likelihood of an unintentional discharge while the person receiving the gun grips it and puts the person handing off the gun in line with the barrel.

    Never pointing the gun at something you don't wish to destroy would have prevented the tragedy and (more than likely) would have prevented any unintentional discharge.

    Ryan
    Those who will not govern their own behavior are slaves waiting for a master; one will surely find them.

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Socal,

    Razor didn't state it was the only way to do so, just the "best" method...And he's right.
    There are multiple different safe methods which demand and require as you noted not placing the bore of the firearm as in relation to any living being.

    But still it is best to unload the firearm first (regardless of format or action type) and then hand over a now confirmed to be empty firearm to the shooter as with action open, and bore not pointed at any living beings.
    The recipient can then upon receipt of transfer load and make ready that firearm as related to their own degree of skill and thus ability.

    This is basic firearm safety 101.
    And it applys not just to beginners and newbies but to everyone and anyone who handles a firearm regardless of chronological age OR how many years or hours as in this case the persons involved in the exchange might have under their belt.

    If this guy as an 'instructor' had known this and shared same with his 'student', then there would be no news report and by that no discussion of the point here. : |

    - Janq

    "ALWAYS keep the gun pointed in a safe direction...ALWAYS keep your finger off the trigger until ready to shoot...ALWAYS keep the gun unloaded until ready to use." - NRA Gun Safety Rules
    Source - http://www.nrahq.org/education/guide.asp
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #8
    Distinguished Member Array Fitch's Avatar
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    I taught my niece to shoot - she wanted to shoot my Glock 19. We started with a safety discussion, muzzle control, all the basics, then began shooting revolvers, and she did very well. She was an A student in HS and college, and played both HS and college backetball. But she "reallly" wanted to shoot the Glock.

    And she did. When she was going to be visiting again, and had completed taking the NRA handgun safety course, she indicated she wanted to shoot the Glock again. So I did some experimenting and discovered that I could load rounds with reduced powder charge that would jam about every 5th or 6th round. Stove pipe, double feed, you name it, they did it.

    I loaded 200 of them. Explained to her what they were. We practiced clearing jams until she had it down with perfect muzzle control, then I left her to shoot the rest of the tub of ammo, and she did. By the end of it she could clear any jam you can think of almost with out thinking.

    It was great practice for her.

    Fitch

  9. #9
    VIP Member Array jbum's Avatar
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    I feel sorry for the young lady she will probably never pick up another firearm.

  10. #10
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I will NEVER hand anyone a loaded gun, only "locked OPEN" and no mag.

    An incidence I know of close to home, was when one youth was handing his brother a loaded shotgun ..... extremely well trained and good with guns. The receiving brother didn't quite have a hold of it when the first brother let loose of the gun. As it started to fall.... they grabbed for it..... it went off, shooting one of them point blank in the chest and killing him.

    If someone drops a gun, I'm letting it hit the floor.... I'm not "grabbing " it either. The chances are slim that it will go off when it hits the ground / floor, and if it actually did.... that it would be pointing in a direction that would be fatal.

    Take the few seconds it takes to unload the gun and hand it to them. I'm amazed at gun shops when a clerk hands me a closed gun without opening it or checking it.

  11. #11
    Member Array FLSquirrelHunter's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Fitch View Post
    I taught my niece to shoot - [...] I could load rounds with reduced powder charge that would jam about every 5th or 6th round. Stove pipe, double feed, you name it, they did it.

    I loaded 200 of them. Explained to her what they were. We practiced clearing jams until she had it down with perfect muzzle control, then I left her to shoot the rest of the tub of ammo, and she did. By the end of it she could clear any jam you can think of almost with out thinking.

    It was great practice for her.

    Fitch
    Great idea!

  12. #12
    Member Array dakeypoo's Avatar
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    She's Israeli. I'm sure she'll pick up another firearm. Interestingly enough, this happened in my county. So sad.

  13. #13
    Distinguished Member Array jumpwing's Avatar
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    "According to the investigation, an ammunition round had jammed in a 9mm Glock that the girl was shooting. Barnhart, whose home they were at, removed the round, reinserted the magazine and cocked it. He then handed the girl the gun butt first, the Sheriff’s Office news release said. When she grabbed the gun by the butt, it discharged hitting Barnhart in the right upper arm area penetrating into his chest."
    1. Glocks aren't cocked. They probably meant "chambered a round" so the reporter obviously wasn't thorough. As usual.

    2. The most likely culprit in any Glock jam (particularly when the shooter is a 16-year-old girl) is limp-wristing, not poor maintenance.
    "The flock sleep peaceably in their pasture at night because Sheepdogs stand ready to do violence on their behalf."
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  14. #14
    Member Array muzzleloader's Avatar
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    One of the Glock's stong points: Ease of firing. Unfortunately it's also a weak point (in the hands of the untrained). Good to start em out with revolvers and work up from there if desired. Started my girls out with a Single Six then moved up to a Ruger Mark II. Loading single rounds only in the mag creates a lot of good repetition. If a muzzle strays or a finger goes in the trigger guard, then the practice session is over (stearnly). I trust my teenagers behind me with a firearm to a greater degree than most grown men I know.

  15. #15
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    Like using any tool, one cannot afford to forget the rules and safety requirements established for that tool (guns, saws, drills, etc.), not even for a second...that's all it takes to have serious accidents.
    The last Blood Moon Tetrad for this millennium starts in April 2014 and ends in September 2015...according to NASA.

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