Report Shows 90 Mintute Gap in Va Tech Shooting Timeline

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Thread: Report Shows 90 Mintute Gap in Va Tech Shooting Timeline

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    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    Report Shows 90 Mintute Gap in Va Tech Shooting Timeline

    Report shows gap in timeline of Virginia Tech shootings - CNN.com

    Virginia Tech students grieve on the first anniversary of the shootings in 2008.STORY HIGHLIGHTS
    NEW: Employee said on day of shooting: "'Gunman on the loose; This is not releasable yet"
    NEW: Police discovered first victims at 7:24 a.m.; Campus alert wasn't sent until 9:26 a.m.
    Some staffers warned families nearly 90 minutes before campus was notified
    Gov. Timothy Kaine: Addendum corrects, clarifies details of August 2007 panel report
    RELATED TOPICS
    Virginia Tech Hokies
    Tim Kaine
    Virginia Tech Police Department
    New York (CNN) -- On the morning of the 2007 shooting massacre that rocked the country, Virginia Tech officials had begun to lock down administrative buildings and some staffers even warned their families nearly 90 minutes before the rest of campus was notified that a gunman was on the loose, according to a new report released by Virginia's governor Friday.

    Officials charged with sending the campus alert on the first shootings in West Ambler Johnston dormitory did not do so until 9:26 a.m. on April 16, 2007, according to the report by Arlington-based System Planning Corporation's TriData division, an independent public safety consulting firm. That was more than two hours after police discovered the first two victims in the dormitory at 7:24 a.m.

    And at least two members of the "Policy Group" -- the group charged with sending the alert -- told their family members of the shooting prior to notifying the campus, according to the report.

    But the university refuted that claim, saying in a statement that staffers not part of the group told family members of the shooting. The university did not identify those staffers, nor did the report identify the group members who notified family members. The group is comprised of nine vice presidents and support staff, and chaired by the university president.

    One Policy Group employee even sent an e-mail to a colleague in Richmond about the shooting at 8:45 a.m., the report said.

    " 'Gunman on the loose,' the e-mail read, and then 'This is not releasable yet,' " the report states about the message from an unnamed staffer.

    The report also says: "The same Policy Group member reminds his Richmond colleague, 'just try to make sure it doesn't get out.'"

    As some administrative officials learned of the dormitory assault, some buildings were locked down, but many on campus still did not know what was unraveling.

    The dormitory was locked down six minutes after the first two victims were found, but later students were allowed to leave, some of whom went to classes in Norris Hall, where gunman Cho Seung-Hui, 23, unleashed his deadly onslaught.

    Two students who left the Johnston residence hall after its lockdown was lifted were killed in Norris Hall, the report said.

    According to the report, some administrative buildings were locked down following the finding of the two dormitory victims. The president's building was locked down by 8:52 a.m., 34 minutes before the rest of campus knew what was happening and more than 40 minutes before the first shots were heard ringing out from Norris Hall, it said.

    Suzanne Grimes, whose son was wounded when his German class in Norris Hall came under fire, told CNN she believes the school could have kept her son and many others from danger.

    "If they had sent an alert out when they were supposed to, even if it had been 40 minutes after [the initial dormitory shooting], my son wouldn't have gone to class," she said. "And that's upsetting."

    Her son, Kevin Sterne, was shot twice in the right leg, she said. Paramedics had to resuscitate him, she said.

    The rampage left 32 people dead, nearly all of them students or professors. Cho eventually turned the gun on himself.

    Gov. Timothy Kaine issued the new report with the revised timeline of events as an addendum to the August 2007 panel review of the event. The addendum also corrects and clarifies details of the earlier report, the governor said in a statement.

    The new document includes additional details proposed by victims, families and the school, the statement said.

    Grimes said she and others had been pushing for the new report to "reveal the truth" about what happened.

    "What happened at Virginia Tech is by its very nature inexplicable, and we may never fully understand the tragic events that transpired that terrible day. However, the Commonwealth has remained committed to providing as accurate a factual narrative as possible," Kaine said in a statement. "By incorporating the suggestions of victims, their families, and the university, the Addendum is intended to more accurately describe the events that transpired and the responses they produced."
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    so the school should have been psychic and known that this wasn't just an isolated incident but the start of a killing spree or are they saying you should shut down the whole school anytime someone get killed near it both seem unreasonable to me. Hindsight is always 20/20.How about giving the students the means to protect themselves so they can stop wakos like this before they kill a lot of people.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiller2 View Post
    so the school should have been psychic and known that this wasn't just an isolated incident but the start of a killing spree or are they saying you should shut down the whole school anytime someone get killed near it both seem unreasonable to me. Hindsight is always 20/20.How about giving the students the means to protect themselves so they can stop wakos like this before they kill a lot of people.
    So do you think locking down the campus when you have a double homicide in one of the dormitories on campus is unreasonable?
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    Question

    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So do you think locking down the campus when you have a double homicide in one of the dormitories on campus is unreasonable?
    So explain how locking him in his dorm with 600 other student would have been better than him locking himself in an academic building with far fewer students turned out?
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    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    That's why most of "us" , do not want to rely on any 'officials' for our own safety.

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    Quote Originally Posted by mcp1810 View Post
    So do you think locking down the campus when you have a double homicide in one of the dormitories on campus is unreasonable?
    Yes I do!
    Are you going to lock down a whole city street or the whole block or the whole town because someone got killed in one house or apartment?The hallway or even the whole dormitory is reasonable but unless you have got a reason to believe this was something besides an isolated incident I see no reason to lock down a whole campus, and at the beginning the police had no reason, that I have heard of, to believe this was anything more than an isolated incident

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    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post
    So explain how locking him in his dorm with 600 other student would have been better than him locking himself in an academic building with far fewer students turned out?
    You are not going to have 600 other students in the same room with him are you? The concept of the lock down is that everyone is isolated in their current location. By failing to lock down he was allowed to go anywhere he wanted, including a much more target rich environment that he was initially in. In fact he was able to leave campus and come back at his leisure to continue his killing. With a lock down you would unfortunately be confining a limited number of students in the same area with the shooter, but you would by extension be limiting his available targets. And, with the lock down and the heightened awareness that should come with it little things like someone walking the halls and chaining doors shut would more likely have been noticed. With an immediate lock down you also have a better chance of locating witnesses that would help you identify a suspect.

    Quote Originally Posted by Chiller2 View Post
    Yes I do!
    Are you going to lock down a whole city street or the whole block or the whole town because someone got killed in one house or apartment?The hallway or even the whole dormitory is reasonable but unless you have got a reason to believe this was something besides an isolated incident I see no reason to lock down a whole campus, and at the beginning the police had no reason, that I have heard of, to believe this was anything more than an isolated incident
    A whole city street or town is not a college campus. A whole city street or town consists of multiple properties with multiple property owners that have rights. A college campus is owned and controlled by a single entity. It has a vulnerable population. You say in your post to give them the means to defend themselves. What about all of those eighteen, nineteen, and twenty year olds that can't purchase and in some states carry firearms? Why discriminate against them? Are they some kind of second class citizens? Doesn't the administration have any responsibility to them and their families? And saying to allow weapons in this case is shutting the barn door after the horse ran out. The issue raised by this thread, as I understand it, is that the administration failed to follow established procedures for ninety minutes!
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    As far as the police and campus officials knew this was an isolated crime what reason or justification did they have to lock down the whole school.You also seem to think it is reasonable to lock down a whole town for one crime but the reason not to do it is just a matter of practicality and property rights.And guess what people in some towns in states such as Wisconsin,and New
    Jersey and Illinois are just as vulnerable.I also don't believe I set an age limit on who to arm.Arm them all wouldn't bother me to see them carrying AR's and shotguns slung across their shoulders to class.

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    It really upsets me that I can't CC at school.

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    Quote Originally Posted by Chiller2 View Post
    As far as the police and campus officials knew this was an isolated crime what reason or justification did they have to lock down the whole school.
    Since you seem to be so well informed on this can you please cite specific information that the police and campus administration had that indicated this was an isolated incident? Everything I have seen indicated they did not know what they had other than two students dead from gunshot wounds.

    You also seem to think it is reasonable to lock down a whole town for one crime but the reason not to do it is just a matter of practicality and property rights.And guess what people in some towns in states such as Wisconsin,and New
    Jersey and Illinois are just as vulnerable.
    And have the governments in those places informed their population that if there is ever a question about their safety they will be immediately notified by phone, e-mail, or text message? And that the town will be locked down until the situation is resolved? If they have and they failed to do so for ninety minutes I would have a problem with them too. Just as I have a problem with the administration at Va. Tech for not locking down when they should have an allowing more students to walk into the kill zone.
    I also don't believe I set an age limit on who to arm.Arm them all wouldn't bother me to see them carrying AR's and shotguns slung across their shoulders to class.
    Wouldn't bother me a bit either. But it's not going to happen in our lifetime.
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    Can someone explain to me the rationale behind a "lockdown"?

    I don't care if it's a pre-school, high school or university... what exactly does a lock-down accomplish? In the event of an "active shooter", you have as much chance of locking an armed, homicidal-suicidal maniac in with generally defenseless people as you do of locking him out. What on earth does this solve?

    I'm not talking about a situation where the location of the shooter is known, but rather one like at VA Tech where there is active mayhem, but little else is known.

    Can someone enlighten me with solid knowledge, and not just speculation?
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    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    gasmitty,
    If you have an active shooter yes you could in theory condemn one room (the room the shooter is already in) to death. But in reality they are pretty much as good as dead anyway. If they can get out of the room they should be getting as far away from the kill zone as possible, not just into another room in the building. Everyone else in the building shelters in place until LEO's secure the area and evacuate them. When the first officers arrive on the scene, instead of having hundreds of people running at them (including possibly the shooter making their escape) they should be finding hallways containing nothing but:
    A) The shooter
    B) Victims

    If the shooter is still active, he will be much more quickly and easily located if he is the only person moving in the building than if you have hundreds of people running aorund in a panic. Also, if you recall at Columbine Harris and Klebold had rigged IED's in the school. If you lock down, you don't allow the gunmen to herd people into a pre rigged killing zone.

    With Virginia Tech part of the problem is that they did not lock down, therefore allowing a more target rich environment. Instead of having dorm rooms with one to three people in them the shooter was given class rooms with dozens of targets in each room. The failure to lock down also allowed students that lived off campus to come into the killing zone before the shooter was identified.
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    The rationale is it lets the powers that be claim they did something no matter how ineffective it may be.

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