Jail time for beating intruder (Nanny State) - Page 2

Jail time for beating intruder (Nanny State)

This is a discussion on Jail time for beating intruder (Nanny State) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I can only say one thing to this..... where was the "criminal justice system" when the guys entered his house, tied up his family, and ...

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Thread: Jail time for beating intruder (Nanny State)

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    I can only say one thing to this.....

    where was the "criminal justice system" when the guys entered his house, tied up his family, and was threatening them with a knife ?? And, where were they when they didn't keep these guys in prison the last time, as surely this was not their 'first offense'.

    Right... sure thing.... sorry , I have to let you threaten my family so the criminal justice system can take care of you later. This sounds like the UK all over again.


  2. #17
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    The U.K. just plain sucks.i read about things like this happening over there all the time.
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  3. #18
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    I have no problems with what happened (sort of...)...you vote for your leaders, they act...if you don't like it, vote them out of office.
    If we don't start acting like the conservatives we are...we are headed in the same direction.

    'Nuff said...
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  4. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Problem is Hopyard that once again as has been stated prior; 'Apprehension' is not lawful.
    A key element of the situation that cannot be ignored as against the whole, per UK legal view.

    That act of citizen/civilian (non-LEO) apprehension precedes whether the beaten burglar was beaten as he tried to escape their _apprehension_ as within the alley way or was not resisting and beaten upon _apprehension_.

    The act of apprehending the person in the first place is unlawful.

    Further the thought of using a self-defense claim as toward a _past_ threat that is no longer as in the _immediate_ a threat has no basis. Not in the UK at all, nor in much of the US.

    The BG in this case as awful as he had been prior as into the past was no longer an _immediate_ threat to the victims family. He was not on/among his property.
    Nor on the property to the victims brother who came to aid in the _apprehension_ and beating as by revenge ('street justice'), who himself was not a directly affected victim and thus merely a third party.

    As by the eyes of The Law and as by legality.

    That is how it goes in the UK.
    So have said a number of times their judicial system.

    People from there well know this or should by now.

    - Janq

    "Apprehension | Seizure by legal process : arrest <apprehension of a criminal>"- http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/apprehension
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  5. #20
    VIP Member Array packinnova's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    it's cases like this that embolden criminals. I think there would be a whole lot less crime if the justice system would let things (like this case) play out. if criminals know there going to get there butts handed to them even if they run away, there would be less crime

    Now it seems the only way to get justice AND stay out of jail is to follow the criminals home, and rob your stuff back
    Yeah...why don't you ask OJ how that went...
    "My God David, We're a Civilized society."

    "Sure, As long as the machines are workin' and you can call 911. But you take those things away, you throw people in the dark, and you scare the crap out of them; no more rules...You'll see how primitive they can get."
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  6. #21
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    ! ^^

    - Judge Lance Ito
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  7. #22
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by packinnova View Post
    Yeah...why don't you ask OJ how that went...

    hey, we're talking about the U.K. here

    to me it sounds like if your a criminal, you have more rights than a common citizen. I wonder how long it will take the NObama administration to figure out they can try that here.
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  8. #23
    Member Array Tint Bob's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Jmac00 View Post
    hey, we're talking about the U.K. here

    to me it sounds like if your a criminal, you have more rights than a common citizen. I wonder how long it will take the NObama administration to figure out they can try that here.
    What do you mean ....How long???
    Its gonna happen!!!! Your lot have been having cosy fireside chats with our whack jobs since the dumocrats got it.....

    Thought you might like to see what the right-wing press think
    Raid victim appeals against 39month jail sentence for attack on burglar | The Sun |Features

    The Sun is part of Fox


    Tint Bob (UK)

  9. #24
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    re: Janq, clarification

    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Problem is Hopyard that once again as has been stated prior; 'Apprehension' is not lawful.
    A key element of the situation that cannot be ignored as against the whole, per UK legal view.
    If indeed "apprehension is not lawful" in the UK, then yes, in a perverse way this was what you call "street justice."

    Do we know that "apprehension" is unlawful there (UK) or is this an assumption?

    Do our "citizen's arrest" rights (limited as they are) not arise from English Common law? Is there really no vestige of that common law right left in their system?

    Just asking, not arguing or disagreeing.

  10. #25
    VIP Member Array matiki's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    If indeed "apprehension is not lawful" in the UK, then yes, in a perverse way this was what you call "street justice."

    Do we know that "apprehension" is unlawful there (UK) or is this an assumption?

    Do our "citizen's arrest" rights (limited as they are) not arise from English Common law? Is there really no vestige of that common law right left in their system?

    Just asking, not arguing or disagreeing.
    They do have citizens arrest there - they even have store detectives that can make detentions/arrests just like we do here in most States.

    Where we part ways (the U.S. and the U.K.) is our understanding of reasonable force. For the most part we operate under the assumption that it's reasonable to escalate force to match and overcome resistance (but not more than that). Over there, they don't consider the use of violence an appropriate escalation except in self-defense. In other words - if they won't go along with your citizens arrest, and the only way for you to affect it is through use of violence, you'd better not.
    "Wise people learn when they can; fools learn when they must." - The Duke of Wellington

  11. #26
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    re: Matiki, thank you for clearing that up

    Quote Originally Posted by matiki View Post
    They do have citizens arrest there - they even have store detectives that can make detentions/arrests just like we do here in most States.

    Where we part ways (the U.S. and the U.K.) is our understanding of reasonable force. For the most part we operate under the assumption that it's reasonable to escalate force to match and overcome resistance (but not more than that). Over there, they don't consider the use of violence an appropriate escalation except in self-defense. In other words - if they won't go along with your citizens arrest, and the only way for you to affect it is through use of violence, you'd better not.
    In other words, you can apprehend them if you do it gently and the BG willingly agrees to his own arrest.

    "How civilized."

  12. #27
    Senior Member Array Jmac00's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In other words, you can apprehend them if you do it gently and the BG willingly agrees to his own arrest.

    "How civilized."
    I would think it's easier if the BG was unconscious

    but apparently, in the UK, that leads to problems
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  13. #28
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    Quote Originally Posted by mojust View Post
    This is insane by anybody's standards.
    But Completely NORMAL across the "pond"^^^^^^^^^





    Quote Originally Posted by ArmyCop View Post
    Don't let any of OUR liberal judges see this - it'll give THEM ideas....
    I think some of our judges and college professors have studied over there
    Here are a few comments from mostly Brits, and what they think of their Judicial system

    JUNIPER ICESHIMMER wrote:
    This man should be released immediately and receive an apology

    His psychological state cannot be any indication of a criminal mind - his family and home were attacked, he was attacked - this man is no danger to society - in fact more like him would give us a safer society! It is the so-called system that the judge attempts to protect that is abused by inflicting a further torment upon this decent family man with the courage to protect his loved ones from the criminal and savages who get off lightly time after time after time after time!!!!!!!!!!!!
    December 16, 2009 2:22 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk Recommend? (10) Report Abuse Permalink

    Muldoon Muldoon wrote:
    The judge said we should not take the law into our own hands; but in whose should we leave it. Obviously not his and not in the hands of a government emasculated, undermanned target driven police force. Still at least by arresting Munir and his brother they got a conviction for their statistics that they would not have otherwise got.
    December 16, 2009 1:00 PM GMT on community.timesonline.co.uk Recommend? (8) Report Abuse Permalink



    Andy X wrote:
    Time for someone familiar with it to start a petition on the 10 downing street website maybe? Lets show the government how many people think this conviction is ridiculous! Everyone would need to link it on their facebook etc.

    I mean, if we can mobilise almost a million people just to put some egg on Simon Cowell's face, maybe we can get a few million people to help the Hussein brothers home for Christmas?




    "After a shooting spree, they always want to take the guns away from the people who didn't do it."
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    Last edited by oneshot; December 17th, 2009 at 09:56 PM. Reason: add comments from article
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  14. #29
    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Every time I hear about things across the pond on here, I can't help but think of the lyrics to "God Save the Queen" by the Sex Pistols.

    God save the queen,
    her fascist regime,
    that made you a moron,

    potential H-bomb

    God save the queen,
    she ain't no human being,
    and there's no future,
    in England's dreaming


    It's scary to think that these words were written by an English punk band over 30 years ago.

    Even scarier that it seems to be coming true...
    "Stand your ground, don't fire unless fired upon, but if they mean to have a war, let it begin here!" - John Parker April 19th, 1775 Lexington, MA

    Μολών λαβέ!

  15. #30
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    ^AMEN!

    But can we be too surprised in a land where parents are pedophiles until proven innocent and police tell you to bring them found guns but will arrest you for doing so.

    That whole country is FUBAR and we're not far behind!!!

    [/rant]

    sorry....it all just makes me freaking sick....

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