Police/Media: "Shotgun might accidently go off during holdup"

This is a discussion on Police/Media: "Shotgun might accidently go off during holdup" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Someone please explain what on earth they mean? Shotgun wielding bandit has police on edge - News Story - KXLY Spokane Shotgun wielding bandit has ...

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Thread: Police/Media: "Shotgun might accidently go off during holdup"

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    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Police/Media: "Shotgun might accidently go off during holdup"

    Someone please explain what on earth they mean?


    Shotgun wielding bandit has police on edge - News Story - KXLY Spokane

    Shotgun wielding bandit has police on edge

    SPOKANE -- Spokane police are worried about a series of armed robberies in which the robber is using a shotgun that could accidentally go off during the holdups.

    Since November it appears the same bandit has hit several convenience stores and other businesses including Empire Food on North Nevada, the Sunset Grocery and the Divines' on North Hamilton.

    Police are concerned because part of this particular robber’s calling card is to rack a shotgun while pointing it at the clerk.

    “He certainly could have had a shell in the chamber when he went in there and didn't have to rack it but definitely we believe he did that for intimidation purposes,” Lieutenant Dave McGovern with the Spokane Police Department’s Major Crimes unit said.

    The problem is if you pump the action on a 12-gauge shotgun and your finger's inside the trigger guard it can easily go off.

    “Yeah, it will go off with less pressure than you might think it would take for a shotgun to go off and it has devastating effects,” Lt. McGovern said.

    No one knows that better than the family of Shadle Park High School student Matt Migaki., who was killed four years ago when a young man robbed him. The robber racked the shotgun, chambered a shell for the same attention-getting effect. As the shotgun was racked the triggered was pulled and Migaki was shot and killed.

    Police worry the person behind these shotgun hold-ups may end up doing the same thing during one of his heists.

    “They may not mean for the gun to go off, it may be an accidental firing of the gun but it's still going to be a murder / homicide type conviction for these people. That's what concerns us the most,” Lt. McGovern said,

    Detectives believe this robber is working with a getaway driver and that accomplice should know that if someone does get killed during one of these hold ups because of the felony murder rule both the driver and the gunman will get these same punishment in court regardless of who pulls the trigger.

    That sentence would include a 20-year prison term as well as a non-reducible deadly weapons enhancement.
    Let's not blame the BG... why not blame the shotgun instead? Poor BG was using a killer shotgun with a mind of its own.

    "but officer, it was an accident! the gun just went of, I mean I was robbing a liquor store, and I did point it at that guy, and yes, my finger did pull the trigger, but no it was an accident"

    ??!?!?!?!?
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

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  3. #2
    Distinguished Member Array PastorPack's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    Someone please explain what on earth they mean?


    Shotgun wielding bandit has police on edge - News Story - KXLY Spokane



    Let's not blame the BG... why not blame the shotgun instead? Poor BG was using a killer shotgun with a mind of its own.

    "but officer, it was an accident! the gun just went of, I mean I was robbing a liquor store, and I did point it at that guy, and yes, my finger did pull the trigger, but no it was an accident"

    ??!?!?!?!?
    It's sad. So many shotguns come from broken homes...no father figure, no role model.
    God is love (1 John 4:8)

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    VIP Member Array goldshellback's Avatar
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    “He certainly could have had a shell in the chamber when he went in there and didn't have to rack it but definitely we believe he did that for intimidation purposes,” Lieutenant Dave McGovern with the Spokane Police Department’s Major Crimes unit said.

    The problem is if you pump the action on a 12-gauge shotgun and your finger's inside the trigger guard it can easily go off."


    Really?!?
    "Just getting a concealed carry permit means you haven't commited a crime yet. CCP holders commit crimes." Daniel Vice, senior attorney for the Brady Campaign to Prevent Gun Violence, quoted on Fox & Friends, 8 Jul, 2008

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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    Someone please explain what on earth they mean?

    Shotgun wielding bandit has police on edge - News Story - KXLY Spokane

    Let's not blame the BG... why not blame the shotgun instead? Poor BG was using a killer shotgun with a mind of its own.

    "but officer, it was an accident! the gun just went of, I mean I was robbing a liquor store, and I did point it at that guy, and yes, my finger did pull the trigger, but no it was an accident"

    ??!?!?!?!?
    It means the Bad Guy committed a crime. It also sounds like the police gave out an in accurate press release. How on earth could the LEO's know if the shotgun was pumped and if the perp. had his finger on the trigger. Were they there?
    If you understand, things are just as they are... If you do not understand, things are just as they are....
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    Quote Originally Posted by goldshellback View Post
    “He certainly could have had a shell in the chamber when he went in there and didn't have to rack it but definitely we believe he did that for intimidation purposes,” Lieutenant Dave McGovern with the Spokane Police Department’s Major Crimes unit said.

    The problem is if you pump the action on a 12-gauge shotgun and your finger's inside the trigger guard it can easily go off."


    Really?!?
    Unless the safety is on

    Sounds like the police and the media are trying to whip up the locals into a frenzy to get them all on the bandwagon about the impending 'Assault Rifle Ban" legislation coming around.
    Those evil guns, Ya can't trust 'em




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    Correct me if I'm wronmg, but don't pump shotguns come with safeties?

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by shooterX View Post
    Correct me if I'm wronmg, but don't pump shotguns come with safeties?
    Yes... the problem is the BG DOESN'T come with one.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    Some shotguns will not engage the safety unless the hammer is cocked,which is caused by racking the action,The Cops are saying that by racking the action,if the BG is dumb enough to have his finger in the trigger guard,that when he slams the forearm forward to chamber the shell the forward movement can cause him to pull the trigger resulting in the gun firing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dukalmighty View Post
    Some shotguns will not engage the safety unless the hammer is cocked,which is caused by racking the action,The Cops are saying that by racking the action,if the BG is dumb enough to have his finger in the trigger guard,that when he slams the forearm forward to chamber the shell the forward movement can cause him to pull the trigger resulting in the gun firing
    I don't know what shotguns you are talking about. Most that I have seen block the trigger in some way or another.

    I think its more likely he got a shotgun that doesn't have a sear disconnect...Most newer shotguns now have a sear disconnect. The older design could produce a condition known as slam fire is the act of holding the trigger and pump the action to have it fire. It was common with the first pump action shotguns cause the trigger and hammer assembly for repeating shotguns was still the old design. Back then a safety was keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Nowadays it seems that no matter where you look there is some moron with his finger on the trigger while not on target. See it in the movies and TV all the time as well as real life on the gun range.

    Either way the point is that the article is taking blame off the criminal if he kills someone.
    There is something about firing 4,200 thirty millimeter rounds/min that makes me feel all warm and fuzzy inside.

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    Facing down a shotgun in a robber's hands is a very big problem.

    Even if the person has a CC weapon on them shotgun holds trump.

    Maybe and only maybe, robber gets chose enough for the barrel to be in reach of the victim, the victim may be able to deflect the shotgun point of aim, and take action to defend himself.
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    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    I don't know what shotguns you are talking about. Most that I have seen block the trigger in some way or another.

    I think its more likely he got a shotgun that doesn't have a sear disconnect...Most newer shotguns now have a sear disconnect. The older design could produce a condition known as slam fire is the act of holding the trigger and pump the action to have it fire. It was common with the first pump action shotguns cause the trigger and hammer assembly for repeating shotguns was still the old design. Back then a safety was keeping your finger off the trigger until ready to fire. Nowadays it seems that no matter where you look there is some moron with his finger on the trigger while not on target. See it in the movies and TV all the time as well as real life on the gun range.

    Either way the point is that the article is taking blame off the criminal if he kills someone.
    I just checked the safety on onea my shotguns and the safety will engage after the hammer drops,I guess I just never engaged a safety unless I loaded it,but you are right about holding the trigger while racking the action and the gun firing
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

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    If the BG is racking a round and aiming the gun at the clerk, my guess would be the BG has already gone over the chances of killing someone during the crime.

    Hopefully there is an LEO, CC citizen, or any sort of sheepdog around next time the BG tries it.
    Laws that forbid the carrying of arms . . . disarm only those who are neither inclined nor determined to commit crimes . . . Such laws... serve rather to encourage than to prevent homicides, for an unarmed man may be attacked with greater confidence than an armed man - Cesare Beccaria

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    I think what they are worried about is not the traditional slam fire where you can hold the trigger and just cycle the action, but as has been mentioned the trigger is forward, and as the fore end goes forward the action goes into battery and then draws the weapon forward against the trigger finger.
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    I think it is very kind of the Lt. to go out of his way to provide the criminal a defense if he shoots someone. Very much in keeping with the spirit of giving during the holidays.

    Matt
    Battle Plan (n) - a list of things that aren't going to happen if you are attacked.
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    Armed robbery is basically a ransom of the clerk’s life for money in his drawer.

    Most BG’s who are not hyped up on drugs; really have no intention of hurting the clerk. While there are some truly sick BG’s out there, for the most part, most do not want to go to jail for life or the electric chair for $200 bucks?

    To get the clerk attention this BG is raking the slide of his shotgun. The problem is by racking the slide with his finger inside the trigger guard, he is taking a chance of killing a clerk, he did not want to.

    By announcing this, Police are hoping to draw this to the BG’s attention, so the BG stops doing it, and possibly saves some poor clerks life.

    I agree with others, I hope the BG gets put down soon before he kills someone

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