Concealed Permit Holder cuffed for officers "safety" - Page 2

Concealed Permit Holder cuffed for officers "safety"

This is a discussion on Concealed Permit Holder cuffed for officers "safety" within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; QUOTE from article Please note that if Mr. Mitchener had not followed law, ordinance, and Metro request, if he had carried a firearm in his ...

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Thread: Concealed Permit Holder cuffed for officers "safety"

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array oneshot's Avatar
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    QUOTE from articlePlease note that if Mr. Mitchener had not followed law, ordinance, and Metro request, if he had carried a firearm in his waistband without ever seeking a permit or informing the officer he had it, the tiny officer would have had no probable cause to disarm him, and he would likely have remained armed throughout the entire encounter. Thus, he was punished, degraded, and treated like a common criminal because and only because he attempted to follow law, ordinance and Metro's legally dubious "instructions."


    Complete, unadulterated Bull crap!!
    I would have called HQ and said "call this one back, and send a real officer of the law"

    The guy presents his cpl card, states who he is.
    Don't give me that malarkey about her safety. What is Cinderella gonna do when she pulls some one over, cuff everyone and stuff 'em in the back of the patrol car ,for safety?? Or is she only going to pull over or interact with teenage girls and Grandmothers . Sheesssh, she should have kept her job at Micky D's or wherever

    I got no use for this!!!

    Okay, I pulled the pin. Now what? Hey! Where are ya going?
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  2. #17
    VIP Member Array cvhoss's Avatar
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    I've always come down on the side of "inform" during a traffic stop. I do this for two reasons. 1. The police have a tough enough job and I don't want to cause them any undue concern and 2. I don't know why they stopped me. I never speed. Could be I didn't see a sign or have a tail light out. Or it could be that my vehicle or me fit the description of a BG they are looking for. In that case, I could end up spread eagle and patted down and that's not the time for surprises.

    However, I've had police officers respond to my home a few times at my request. In none of those situations have I ever informed them that I was armed and this story just re-enforces that decision. Not so much for the inconvenience of being handcuffed but because, as the author points out, he was handcuffed before she had even cleared the building. At any point, something bad could have happened and he would have been completely defenseless.

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  3. #18
    VIP Member Array hogdaddy's Avatar
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  5. #19
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by rstrainii View Post
    Thanks for clearing that up for me. Good to know that.
    BTW to close the gap I should also mention that if you do ever happen to find yourself detained, but not yet arrested, do for yourself immediately fall into your 'I am being arrested' protocol as toward state of mind.

    What I mean by this is you have the right to remain silent. Anything you state can (and likely will as possibly even parsed) be used against you in a court of law.
    So basically, maintain.

    Yeah okay you feel aggrieved and stuff ain't fair or what ever.
    But stow that and keep it for conversation with your attorney and/or the judge thereafter if it progresses into arrest. Don't act a fool.
    You are just detained and you have rights because this is America and you are an American.*

    - Janq

    * - This does not apply if you are an enlisted person and/or have been deemed to be a terrorist, to which then all civilian rights and legal expectations go out the window.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

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  6. #20
    VIP Member Array Eagleks's Avatar
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    If an officer pulls me over, and wants to disarm me, I will comply but will have issues with it. Too much past experience with LEO's and NDs.

    If there is a burglar in my residence or business, I have a right to be armed on my property.... and I would protest strongly and ask for the Officers CO to respond.

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Ditto Hoss.

    At the museum I preside over when the alarm goes off and I am called to respond on site I as a rule do not state to the police that I am armed.
    There is no point. I am the GG and they know this as do I, and I am not being questioned either.
    This occurred most recently in Dec. just before Christmas and we did in that case have a break in though nothing was discovered missing. Likely just a homeless person seeking warn shelter.
    The officer and I together cleared the entire building and out buildings. He had no idea I was armed (Gun w/spare mag, OC/CS and knife). Concealed is concealed.

    Same goes for when I have called police and fire to my home.
    No good strong reason to go into all that.

    I just provide my motor vehicle operators license as a form of ID and leave it at that.
    But then I live in a state that does not require informing of police.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; January 13th, 2010 at 07:27 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  8. #22
    Senior Member Array Katana's Avatar
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    Shell never make it in her chosen career if she continues to treat the law-abiding that way. She'll eventually have so many complaints filed on her that if she's not fired, she'll be pushing papers or put in a position where she'll have next to no interaction with the public.

    At least that's how my old boss would've handled it.
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  9. #23
    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by TerriLi View Post
    When I call the cops to my home or business, they are my guest, my property my rights. Asking me to disarm on my own property Im asking you to leave.
    I think Im safer clearing the place myself.

    Yeah...let us know how that works for you.

  10. #24
    Member Array eaglefrq's Avatar
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    The business owner and author appear to be good friends and whether it was done intentionally or not, this article came across as being written by someone who was mad at the way his friend was treated and not written objectively.

    This reminds me of an editorial on a motorcycle forum I belong to where an article was written concerning the danger of "crotch rockets" and was written only from the mother of the victims perspective and feelings. The author of that article defended his work by stating it was written to illicit outrage from the public.

    I think before any judgment is passed, both sides of the story need to be fully investigated. The PD looked into the incident and felt the officer was justified and followed procedures.

    And no, I'm not a cop so there is no blue line at work.
    Last edited by eaglefrq; January 13th, 2010 at 09:43 PM.

  11. #25
    Member Array KralBlbec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Spade115 View Post
    So for all she knows it could of been a faux break in, you had found paperwork and were looking to possibly kill a cop.
    In which case she would have been shot as she came in and not after he identified himself. The very fact he voluntarily offered his CPL shows that this wasn't the case.

  12. #26
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    There's stuff you can do, and then there's stuff you shouldn't do.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array mcp1810's Avatar
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    To clarify on the handcuffing/arrest/Miranda thing.....
    Last I heard, officers don't have to Mirandize you when you are arrested!! They only have to advise you of your Rights before a custodial interrogation! If they saw you commit an offense and don't ever question you about it, they don't have to Mirandize.
    That may have changed in the last few years but not that I am aware of.
    As far as the police being "guests" on the property, you might want to check your local laws on that. In Maryland your property rights are pretty much non existent from the time emergency services arrive on the scene of a call until they clear. Janq may remember the Marlboro race track fire many years ago. The fire department suspected arson. They kept at least one firefighter on the property twenty four hours a day for over two weeks until the investigators were satisfied they hadn't missed anything. Only when they left were the property owners allowed back onto the grounds.
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  14. #28
    Member Array mcgyver210's Avatar
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    All she did is make another law abiding citizen not trust LEO's also he most likely will not volunteer any info not required by law to LEO's in the future. I know if I was cuffed I would not drop it & would most likely never trust LEO's again. Why did he need to be cuffed when she already disarmed him what a joke. This LEO new or not doesn't need to wear a Badge.

    I am just thankful so far I have had no bad experiences with any LEO's over my HCP but I normally carry concealed because I prefer concealed carry.

  15. #29
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    That is correct/true MCP.

    You can be, and this is not uncommon, actually arrested on site and transported to the po-po station without being Mirandized (!).
    You can be detained there after for what ever amount of time post arrest at the holding point and still not be Mirandized.

    At time of formal processing where prints, photos and entry into the books/system occurs which is then for all intents formal and 'official' arrest you then would be Mirandized/read your rights.

    Meanwhile all that time prior you really have only been detained not arrested, even as you may have been told in so many words 'you are being arrested'.
    Block heads and folk not thinking will across that space of time that can be wide will run their mouth. Stupid. All and any statements made be you the GG, BG or as not yet ascertained neutral party can be recorded and entered as evidence against you or those detained/arrested with you.

    So again it comes back to what I'd stated before as related to being detained and that of arrest.
    As well folk should always know and remember; 'Loose lips sink ships.'

    Agreed as well with MCP on the property rights item.
    State law varies on this but generally as during specific type calls of an emergency, jeopardy and or clear evidence of a crime (pot plants growing in living room visible through open curtains) then the police may enter/be on grounds without permission and without a warrant.
    Again though state laws vary and are circumstantial at that.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  16. #30
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    My biggest problem with this is he was not locked in her cruiser right. He was hand cuffed in an office correct? What if the bg's were there and either got the officer or came out of hiding and saw the owener cuffed and helpless and cause him harm?

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