BAD: Man Charged After Self Defense Shooting

This is a discussion on BAD: Man Charged After Self Defense Shooting within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; the story is being covered here: Arrest in shooting on Market Street in Old City | 6abc.com - 1/18/10 - Philadelphia News - 6abc.com Temple ...

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Thread: BAD: Man Charged After Self Defense Shooting

  1. #1
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    BAD: Man Charged After Self Defense Shooting

    the story is being covered here:

    Arrest in shooting on Market Street in Old City | 6abc.com - 1/18/10 - Philadelphia News - 6abc.com

    Temple Third-Year Law Student Suspected in Shooting - Above the Law - A Legal Tabloid - News, Gossip, and Colorful Commentary on Law Firms and the Legal Profession

    Surveillance vid captures shooting outside Fox 29 studios | Philadelphia Daily News | 01/18/2010

    video of the incident is here:

    Old City Shooting

    from what i could tell from the video, it looks like a good shoot. he was trying to walk away from a a group of guys, he got shoved, then drew his firearm. one of the thugs rushed him, and got perforated for his trouble. the problem is, this happened in Philly. the DA went so far as to claim that his VA permit wasn't valid in PA, which is nonsense! i'm afraid the DA is going to try and crucify him, to get his name in the papers.

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  3. #2
    Member Array chenemf's Avatar
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    I can't tell much from the video.
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    A lot would have to do with what led up to the confrontation, and that is NOT on the video.
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    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by retsupt99 View Post
    A lot would have to do with what led up to the confrontation, and that is NOT on the video.
    i'll give you that; maybe the shooter instigated by name calling, maybe he was a jackass, but the video shows him walking away from a group of men. if i were walking with my girlfriend late at night, and a group of guys were following me, i'd be at high alert. if one put his hands on me, i'm clearing my holster. i don't know about you, but i've been outnumbered in fistfights; 3 against one isn't a good time. i'm only going on what i saw in the video, and the fact that the Philly media has a notoriously anti-slant; in most SD hootings reported, they label the criminal as the "victim", and the defendant is usually painted as a jerk. the fact that the DA said a VA permit asn't valid in PA makes the whole thing stink.

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    The article stated that nothing was said about what sparked the event. No doubt, whatever it was, was taken into consideration in deciding to arrest and charge-- at least I hope so.

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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The article stated that nothing was said about what sparked the event. No doubt, whatever it was, was taken into consideration in deciding to arrest and charge-- at least I hope so.
    I have my doubts, as Mr. Ung has had two charges brought against him which stem from the mistaken belief that his VA permit is not valid here.

  8. #7
    Senior Member Array dripster's Avatar
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    They are gonna bang him for shooting an unarmed man. Philly is ridiculous.
    One more step and it's on!

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    I just finished reading all the comments they added, along with the video. Philly's still the same with a bunch of "i would rather die than kill someone" sheeple in the city and pro 2a in the subburbs and surrounding area's.
    If Ung didn't instigate through words, looks like clear SD.
    In Philly they will charge and arrest, along with a bunch of trumped up charges to make it look worse, like the illegal weapon charge, to put pressure on the individual. If the grand jury brings it forward, it gives the DA more room to try and get someone to plea to crap. They may try to get him to plea to crap knowing they have no case.
    This is part of the reason I don't live in Philly anymore. The other is I like Florida better.
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    The guy felt threatened and pulled a firearm and I'm assuming warned the aggressors to back off,but one individual attacked and tried to disarm him and was shot,I'm gonna go out on a limb and say they were probably intoxicated and the guy got shot was feeling invincible
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    Ex Member Array hamlet's Avatar
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    Video is not clear enough for me to clearly see a number of things: if they were both arguing/fighting just before the shooting, if guy running at shooter was close or far away when the shot was fired, if the guy running had anything in his hands or they were someplace that would read as a weapon being accessed. Nor do any know the immediate or long term history of the shooter and victim if there is any that is relevant.

    The answers to all these points are going to determine if the act of shooting was necessary according to local law in PA - which I also don't know - or an arbitrary act. Anytime you shoot an unarmed man, flags go up - these type of encounters need a real careful look at known facts.

    (Probably why it's best to have Pepper Spray or Surefire, gives you a possible chance to stop a seemingly unarmed attacker long enough to exit the scene, and if you have to shoot after that, at least for the sake of legal considerations, you tried to take action to protect yourself that was non-lethal first.)

    In short, I don't know enough to have an informed opinion about this incident.

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    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet View Post
    Video is not clear enough for me to clearly see a number of things: if they were both arguing/fighting just before the shooting...
    DiDonato and co. were clearly following, and harassing Ung and co.. Apparently, DiDonato and his buddies took offense when Ung bumped into DiDonato, who was doing chin ups on scaffolding. It's quite common to see such scaffolding in Philly. The scaffolding is erected on sidewalks, leaving a narrow space for pedestrians underneath. It was very likely difficult to impossible for others to pass the idiots without bumping them. DiDonato and co. initiated an assault, shoving Ung's male companion from behind, and turning their attention to Ung and his female companion when they attempted to intervene.
    Temple Law Student Charged in Old City Shooting | NBC Philadelphia
    Old City fight began when a man doing chin ups on scaffolding at 2:30 a.m. was bumped
    Temple Law student charged in shooting of Villanova grad | Philadelphia Inquirer | 01/19/2010
    The trouble may have started when someone bumped into DiDonato, police sources said.
    Gerald Ung, 3rd-Year Law Student, Arrested & Charged with Aggravated Assault in Shooting of Ed DiDonato, Captured on TV Station Cameras
    ...police sources told Fox29 that the argument started at a scaffolding next to Fox 29 where the shooting victim was bumped while doing chin ups at 2:30 a.m.
    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet
    ...if guy running at shooter was close or far away when the shot was fired...
    DiDonato was within about 6' when Ung began firing, as far as I can tell. DiDonato may have been within contact distance.

    Quote Originally Posted by hamlet
    ...if the guy running had anything in his hands or they were someplace that would read as a weapon being accessed.
    It doesn't appear that DiDonato was armed. However, he and another male were aggressively charging at Ung. Disparity of force (two against one ) is certainly a valid reason to fear "serious bodily injury", which is a justification for use of force under PA law.

  13. #12
    Ex Member Array jahwarrior72's Avatar
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    here are the charges so far:

    01/18/2010

    Preliminary Arraignment - Not Final

    1 / Criminal Attempt Murder 18901A -- Proceed to Court
    2 / Aggravated Assault 182702A -- Proceed to Court
    3 / Firearms Not To Be Carried W/O License 186106A1 -- Proceed to Court
    4 / Carry Firearms Public In Phila 186108 -- Proceed to Court
    5 / Poss Instrument Of Crime W/Int 18907A -- Proceed to Court
    6 / Simple Assault 182701A -- Proceed to Court
    7 / Recklessly Endangering Another Person 182705 -- Proceed to Court

    this DA is delusional. how is a permit from VA not valid, and how is it unlawful to carry in Philly with a valid permit?

  14. #13
    Senior Member Array unloved's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by jahwarrior72 View Post
    this DA is delusional. how is a permit from VA not valid, and how is it unlawful to carry in Philly with a valid permit?
    He may be suffering from the common misconception that Philly is somehow different from the rest of the state. He certainly ought to know better, and I hope he gets slapped down in court.

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    VIP Member Array MitchellCT's Avatar
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    A 3rd year student in law school would have taken criminal law and had a better than average, no, strike that...he would have been very familiar with when force can be used, and how much per a situation.

    He should have known better than to allow a situation to get to this point.

    This was a stupid situation that should have been resolved with deesclation, running, hand to hand, or OC rather than a shooting.

    He's someone with advanced training in how to use his mind & mouth above all else. He should have used it.

    Sorry if I seem unsympathetic...but I'm not sympathetic.

  16. #15
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    With relation to the charges one thing that is not mentioned in any article I've seen noted and read (I have not read them all though) is whether or not the shooter/defendant actually had on his person in his immediate possession his VA concealed handgun permit.

    This same thing occurs to people who 'forget' their motor vehicle operators license and get pulled over in their own state never mind foreign/non-resident states with out having the permit/license as on their person in the immediate. You get hit with the real crime of operating a motorized vehicle without a license/unlicensed operation. It's not unusual. Even as the person might have a valid and current issue license/permit from their state of residence. You have to have it on your person in the immediate. Same with a boating permit or a hunting license or any other govt. issue permit/license.
    This is why it's important to actually carry your license or licenses as when out of state.

    Also even as reciprocity may be in place when traveling to known to be hostile against civilian gun ownership/carry places such as of all places on planet earth Philadelphia (!) who for years has been in the top five places of crime and shootings in the US...You go ahead and spend the extra TWENTY FIVE DOLLARS (!) to apply to the state or town/city toward a non-resident permit. Doing so can save you money.

    Philadelphia Police Department :: Gun Permit Information
    Pennsylvania State Police

    As to the incident itself, there is a saying by a member here that I've forgotten who in specific it is but it gets stated often toward the 'What would you do' type scenarios such as this worked out IRL to be;

    "When all you carry is a hammer every problem looks like a nail".

    This dudes situation, specific location (Philly!!!) and circumstance is a very good example of why we as civilian carry persons must be knowledgeable in the same force continuum and threat analysis methods that LEOs are trained toward.
    Why? Because as with this incident every problem IS NOT a nail. Sometimes it's just a loose screw or a bolt that requires a little lubrication to be worked around.

    This guy should have been carrying OC/CS as in _addition_ to his gun.
    No gun was required here. Nobody had to get shot.
    He would have been better off per the situation as shown had he used an aerosol defense spray of of some sort, be it stream type liquid spray, foam or gel product.
    Deploy that, immediately gain stand off _distance_ and then immediately you LEAVE as in flee.
    Get around the corner or up the street distant from the threat(s) and you then dial 911 to report the incident including your current location as well as the last known location of the threat.

    No charges of attempted murder and whatnottery nor you being made an example of as within a city that is very well known to have rampant crime issues and thus it's police, mayor, city council and DA all being exceedingly hard nosed in stance on any use of firearms what so ever. Duh!

    This man is in deep trouble. Now.
    Even if he by some miracle gets off clean with all charges dropped/judged invalid, he is still going to pay dearly.

    All because he got brushed at an hour when nobody but drunks, drugged and criminals are out on the streets up to no good as he is doing pull ups on public property to be bumped...and couldn't let it slide.
    As persons who carry we are _required_ to use our best judgment and that includes not being out on the streets doing basically nothing for no good reason at all hours of the abnormal night/morning as among a very much hostile to guns by anyone but police location.

    Folks should learn lessons from this case as by proxy.
    I too like Mitchell and finding it difficult to be sympathetic to his specific case per the situation, and the fact that he is of all things a law major (!). Again, duh.

    - Janq has a resident VA CHP and a PA non-resident LTC
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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