2 CHP holders have fistfight/shooting (update)

2 CHP holders have fistfight/shooting (update)

This is a discussion on 2 CHP holders have fistfight/shooting (update) within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; This is an update to: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...micide-sd.html Prosecutor: Fight escalated into Waterside killing | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com Prosecutor: Fight escalated into Waterside killing NORFOLK Prosecutor Megan ...

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Thread: 2 CHP holders have fistfight/shooting (update)

  1. #1
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    2 CHP holders have fistfight/shooting (update)

    This is an update to: http://www.defensivecarry.com/vbulle...micide-sd.html

    Prosecutor: Fight escalated into Waterside killing | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Prosecutor: Fight escalated into Waterside killing

    NORFOLK

    Prosecutor Megan Zwisohn gripped a gun in each hand as she stood before jurors Wednesday.

    Both guns were legally purchased. Both owners had concealed-weapons permits.

    The gun in her right hand belonged to Juan Carlos Ovalle, 26, who died on the deck of the Waterside parking garage in March when a bullet struck his head.

    The gun in her left hand belonged to Reginald Royals, 25, the man standing trial for murder in Ovalle's death.

    "The difference between how these guns came into play is why you are here today," Zwisohn told jurors.

    The shooting happened after a fistfight brought on by a fender-bender in the crowded garage, and it led to questions about security at Waterside and safety downtown.

    Zwisohn told jurors that Ovalle had a gun that night, and that Royals saw it during a verbal confrontation. But Ovalle put his gun in his car before their altercation turned to blows, she said.

    "It's a stupid male fistfight," Zwisohn said, until Royals started shooting. Ovalle's friend, Marcus McGee, also was seriously wounded.

    Royals' lawyer, Jeffrey Swartz, said Royals did everything he could to appease Ovalle, apologizing for the scratch on his car, offering his cell-phone number, telling him he had insurance, allowing Ovalle's friend to take a photo of his license plate.

    Yet Ovalle and McGee attacked Royals, hemming him in at the open door of his car and punching him, Swartz said. That's when Royals saw Ovalle reach for his pocket, and thought Ovalle was reaching for his gun, Swartz said.

    Royals pulled his own gun in "absolute panic," Swartz said. "He thought he was going to die."

    Two friends who were in the back seat of Ovalle's white Nissan Altima that night testified Wednesday. Ovalle was behind the wheel as they waited in traffic to leave the Waterside garage, they said.

    Both Eric Greene Jr. and Alana Lindsay testified that they heard an engine revving, and watched as Royals tried to inch past them into traffic. Both said Royals bumped Ovalle's car.

    Under cross examination by Swartz, Greene could not identify any damage to Ovalle's car. He pointed out a nick in the fender under the headlight under questioning by Zwisohn.

    Both Greene and Lindsay said Ovalle and McGee returned to the Altima, but then got out and confronted Royals again. Under cross examination by Swartz, Lindsay said Ovalle was "agitated" and didn't believe Royals had insurance.

    In earlier testimony under questioning by Swartz, the medical examiner who performed Ovalle's autopsy said his blood-alcohol concentration was 0.17, or more than twice the legal limit considered intoxicated.

    Ovalle, McGee and Royals threw punches, but it was not clear from the testimony who struck first. Royals landed a punch that knocked Ovalle back a step or two, and McGee stepped in. Someone yelled for the fighting men to stop.

    Then the shooting started.

    Dozens of friends and family members for both Royals and Ovalle crowded the courtroom. Royals' mother, Jacquelyn, cried as her son replied "not guilty" when a clerk read the charges facing him.

    Many of those there for Ovalle wore black T-shirts printed with his photo and the words "Juan Carlos will live forever in our hearts." Others wore buttons with his picture.

    Judge Everett A. Martin Jr. ruled that jurors should not see the shirts or buttons and ordered spectators to remove or cover them. Several people left the courtroom and returned wearing the T-shirts inside out.

    testimony resumes today.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!


  2. #2
    Senior Member Array dsee11789's Avatar
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    Sounds like the dead guy was the agressor.
    Exodus 22:2 "If a thief is caught breaking in and is struck so that he dies, the defender is not guilty of bloodshed"

  3. #3
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by dsee11789 View Post
    Sounds like the dead guy was the agressor.
    Yep and a drunk agressor,in a lot of states being intoxicated and carrying will get your permit revoked,
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  4. #4
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    I remember this as from a prior thread.
    The situation was a case of multiple bully/aggressor contacts (Ovalle & friends) as against one (Royals).

    Run a search as this should come up with much conversation associated to that thread.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

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    [sarc]Great[/sarc]....on the surface, more info for the antis.....however, a drunk driver (with a CHP) gets into a fist fight over a bump in traffic, pulls his gun...and loses......agreed, it sounds like the aggressor died.....but it sounds like he had more problems that just with alcohol.
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

    martyr is a fancy name for crappy fighter
    You have never lived until you have almost died. For those that have fought for it, life has a special flavor the protected will never know

  6. #6
    VIP Member Array dukalmighty's Avatar
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    I wonder if that will fall under drunk driver killed in minor Traffic Accident
    "Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
    --Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .

  7. #7
    VIP Member Array Stevew's Avatar
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    Someone over twice the legal BAC limit doing something stupid. What are the odds?
    Good people do not need laws to tell them to act responsibly, while bad people will find a way around laws. Plato

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  9. #9
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    He said / she said. Witnesses. BAC at twice the limit. Heavy testosterone type aggravation after minor damage to some property, damage that was slight enough to not be readily confirmed by others who looked for the damage. A two-on-one physical beating. One of the aggressors grabbing for something in his pocket, during the attack.

    A bad combination. It'll depend on witness testimony, whether the accused contributed in any manner to the altercation, whether he's believed with respect to his being backed into a corner and legitimately fearing for loss of life.

    Whatever the decision, the lessons are clear: Don't drink to the point you're disabling your faculties; such minor damage to something isn't hardly worth loss of life; anytime/anywhere.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  10. #10
    Distinguished Member Array Guardian's Avatar
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    A few people lost or will lose in this and a lot of us will lose in this in reality for stupidity. The antis have gained some more fuel for the fire to throw at us and don't fool yourself that it's not fuel for the fire against us because it sure is.

    I'm sorry someone died over this, but no matter how this turns out, the pro-gun movement takes a hit.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  11. #11
    VIP Member Array stormbringerr's Avatar
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    when someone is drunk, the first thing they loose is the ability to reason. it goes out the window. a sad ending, but i see no crime here on the shooters part.
    -----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

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    ― Thomas Paine

  12. #12
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    Yet Ovalle and McGee attacked Royals, hemming him in at the open door of his car and punching him,
    What is hemming? Did they help him sew his pants to the correct length?

    I try not to pass judgment from these silly news articles, but this seems to be a pretty clear case of multiple drunk attackers (one of which was armed) and a legit self defense shoot.

    Why are there even charges?

    Note to self: It is not hit and run if you immediately call 911, tell them what happened and that you are in fear of your life from the other party, and drive to the hospital or police station.
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  13. #13
    Member Array Bm7b5's Avatar
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    Exact same circumstances, but Royals is a white 34 year old man and it is unlikely there are any charges.
    A traffic ticket is formal recognition of a lapse in situational awareness.

  14. #14
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by nutz4utwo View Post
    Yet Ovalle and McGee attacked Royals, hemming him in at the open door of his car and punching him,
    What is hemming? Did they help him sew his pants to the correct length?
    ? To be "hemmed in" is to be surrounded and have the option of escape taken from you. As in, the multiple attackers apparently surrounded him, hemmed him in, and thereby blocked his escape.

    ... this seems to be a pretty clear case of multiple drunk attackers (one of which was armed) and a legit self defense shoot.
    Seems to be the case, yes. And yet, charges were brought.

    So, either the detectives or DA know something we don't (most likely); or, there's bias or prejudice (entirely possible); or, there's an unspoken edict to charge anyone left standing, if the circumstances are questionable in the least way. Hard to know, from the feature-rich reporting at this point.

    Which shows how critically important it is, if at all possible, to ensure witnesses hear you, know exactly what's what, know that you're the victim, that you're being attacked, that you're expressing desire to withdraw and not be attacked ... all the while using a HUGE, BOOMING COMMAND VOICE DEMANDING THEY STOP. That depends on having the time to do so. I'll bet that witness testimony doesn't entirely support the claims. We'll see.


    "The difference between how these guns came into play is why you are here today," Zwisohn told jurors.
    Indeed. It's being painted as the deceased taking pains to ensure his gun wasn't available, yet the shooter failed to do the same ... implying the shooter was culpable. Might well be the case, whether for that or other reasons. I'd like to read a transcript and have the testimonies of the witnesses.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: The Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  15. #15
    VIP Member Array paramedic70002's Avatar
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    Waterside garage shooter gets 90 days, $2,500 fine | HamptonRoads.com | PilotOnline.com

    Waterside garage shooter gets 90 days, $2,500 fine
    Posted to: Crime News Norfolk

    Reginald Royals, 25, was found guilty of unlawful wounding of Marcus McGee, who was shot five times.

    Site Search: Archive on Reginald Royals

    By Michelle Washington
    The Virginian-Pilot
    January 23, 2010

    NORFOLK

    A jury found the man accused of murder in a March shooting at the Waterside parking garage guilty of unlawful wounding Friday, and sentenced him to serve 90 days in jail and pay a $2,500 fine.

    Reginald Royals Jr., 25, was acquitted of all other charges, including the second-degree murder charge in the death of Juan Carlos Ovalle, 26.

    Ovalle died from a single gunshot wound to the head. Ovalle's friend, Marcus McGee, was shot five times. It was for that shooting that Royals was convicted.

    The sentence means that Royals, in custody since the shooting, was released Friday night, according to the Sheriff's Office.

    "All I want to say is, God is good," said Royals' mother, Jacquelyn Royals, after hearing the sentence.

    The verdict and sentence concluded an emotional three-day trial during which dozens of friends and family members for both sides crowded the courtroom.

    Prosecutor Megan Zwisohn told jurors from the beginning that the case was not about good versus evil.

    Both Royals and Ovalle were hard-working men who had never been in trouble. Both had legally purchased handguns for which they had concealed-weapons permits.

    Both men had their guns in the parking garage at Waterside. Their cars bumped as bar patrons left the area around closing time March 22.

    The incident escalated to a fistfight.

    Royals testified Thursday that he had not been the aggressor in the confrontation and that Ovalle had brandished his gun.

    Royals said Ovalle and McGee attacked him and that he only pulled his own gun because he believed Ovalle reached for his.

    During his sentencing hearing, Royals thanked jurors for listening to him.

    "You had my life in your hands," Royals said. "I never imagined in my whole life that anything like this would happen. I would never wish this on anyone. I wish things could have turned out totally different."

    McGee testified that he had lost his job and his apartment in the months following the shooting, because he was mentally unable to work. All five bullets remain in his body.

    Many in Ovalle's family cried after the verdict acquitting Royals of murder.

    Outside the courtroom, his sister-in-law, Karen Ovalle, said the family would not stay for the sentencing.

    "We can't keep our composure in court," Karen Ovalle said. She stood with her husband, Juan Carlos' brother, Manuel.

    "We're going to be crying," said Juan Carlos Ovalle's sister, Belkis Ovalle. "We can't believe that it's happening."

    Royals' friends and family held hands as they awaited the verdict. There were gasps and tears when it was announced. Royals' mother hugged his lawyer, Jeffrey Swartz.

    Swartz gathered Royals' clothes to take to his mother. Royals would return to the jail to complete the paperwork that would set him free.

    "Although there's relief, there's no joy here," Swartz said. "Reggie's family understands that a man is dead and another shot. Reggie will have to live with the decision he was forced to make in the blink of an eye."

    Michelle Washington, (757) 446-2287, michelle.washington@pilotonline.com



    So here are the relevant Code sections:

    LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-51.2

    18.2-51.2. Aggravated malicious wounding; penalty.

    A. If any person maliciously shoots, stabs, cuts or wounds any other person, or by any means causes bodily injury, with the intent to maim, disfigure, disable or kill, he shall be guilty of a Class 2 felony if the victim is thereby severely injured and is caused to suffer permanent and significant physical impairment.

    B. If any person maliciously shoots, stabs, cuts or wounds any other woman who is pregnant, or by any other means causes bodily injury, with the intent to maim, disfigure, disable or kill the pregnant woman or to cause the involuntary termination of her pregnancy, he shall be guilty of a Class 2 felony if the victim is thereby severely injured and is caused to suffer permanent and significant physical impairment.

    C. For purposes of this section, the involuntary termination of a woman's pregnancy shall be deemed a severe injury and a permanent and significant physical impairment.

    LIS > Code of Virginia > 18.2-54

    18.2-54. Conviction of lesser offenses under certain indictments.

    On any indictment for maliciously shooting, stabbing, cutting or wounding a person or by any means causing him bodily injury, with intent to maim, disfigure, disable or kill him, or of causing bodily injury by means of any acid, lye or other caustic substance or agent, the jury or the court trying the case without a jury may find the accused not guilty of the offense charged but guilty of unlawfully doing such act with the intent aforesaid, or of assault and battery if the evidence warrants.
    -----------------------------

    Note there is no Felony or Misdemeanor assignment in the second Code cited, which is the Code he was convicted on. Also note that the way the sentence is worded, it seems to be a Misdemeanor sentence.
    "Each worker carried his sword strapped to his side." Nehemiah 4:18

    Guns Save Lives. Paramedics Save Lives. But...
    Paramedics With Guns Scare People!

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