Charges Dropped Against Good Samaritan. - Page 2

Charges Dropped Against Good Samaritan.

This is a discussion on Charges Dropped Against Good Samaritan. within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by ccw9mm Because she was being beaten and the threat was immediate. I imagine he didn't believe he'd need to be running around ...

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Thread: Charges Dropped Against Good Samaritan.

  1. #16
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccw9mm View Post
    Because she was being beaten and the threat was immediate. I imagine he didn't believe he'd need to be running around much, hence no particular need for "running" shoes or anything of the sort. He did have protection on his feet, already. Didn't seem that he believe he'd require more-substantial protection. Doesn't seem strange, to me, particularly if the urgency of someone in need is clear.
    Which is to my point why this should be void as yet another item of learning by proxy.

    Neighbor being beaten...
    Break into your own home...
    Your own house on fire...
    Whatever!

    An item I do and have been doing for decades is to keep a pair of _shoes_ at the side or foot of my bed.
    Most commonly they are my Timberland boots which is what I walk around in 90% of my days. I don't own a pair of running shoes/trainers myself personally but as I'd stated prior practically any _shoe_ will do.

    Flip flops are not shoes. Nor are sandals for that matter, as toward those who live in Rome, Greece or Sumeria.

    Reason being if you have a _true_ and real emergency just as one (of us) would have an arm and flashlight at hand near by, you are absolutely positively dependent on your feet. It is what we stand on and is what allows us locomotion. Without feet you're sunk.

    Dude had time to grab his shotgun and three shells as well as load two to the mag and one to the chamber.
    He had the 3s time it takes to slide on hard sole full foot coverage shoes.
    If the lady was going to die in that 3s then she was dead before he rolled out of bed.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  2. #17
    Distinguished Member Array Spec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    Why would a person think to wear _flip flops_ as when responding to an emergency event of such degree that it would be suitable to locate a shotgun as a just in case matter?

    Flip flops are for showers, pools and the beach.
    Put on some proper shoes. Heck even a pair of dress shoes would be better than flip flops!
    How are you supposed to fight or run for cover, in flip flops?!

    - Janq
    what do you think Al Qieda Wears?
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  3. #18
    Member Array BaserRonin's Avatar
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    The moral of this story is, once again, shoot to kill or don't shoot at all. Well, that and that some women apparently love to be abused...
    Due to it's content the posting above should not have been read by anyone.

    It is useless for the sheep to pass resolutions in favour of vegetarianism while the wolf remains of a different opinion.
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  4. #19
    EdC
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    I'm glad the charges against the well meaning young man were dropped. However, Mandell was either willing to use deadly force and kill the BG to prevent him from leaving, or Mandell was bluffing. Neither option is very wise.

    As it being self defense after Mandell stood in front of the truck, that wouldn't fly in most states, I think. You can't escalate a situation and get out of it with justifiable deadly force, in most places.

    Fortunately, for all involved, the BG blinked first. A lesson for us as to what not to do and why. Mandell was lucky.

  5. #20
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by EdC View Post
    As it being self defense after Mandell stood in front of the truck, that wouldn't fly in most states, I think.
    It does with LEO's. But the distinction is that LEO's have two jobs to perform, not just the one that we do: (a) to stop the violence against others; and (b) to bring in the felon.

    Upstanding citizens only stop the violence against others. It gets bloody dicey (legally speaking) when one dares to push that limit. Society doesn't seem to take that very well, in spite of the fact that it's really the SAME thing occurring ... a violent criminal being stopped and brought in to face the music. Strange brew, though that's the way it is.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
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  6. #21
    Distinguished Member Array razor02097's Avatar
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    Its good to see the kid had the guts to stand up to the attacker. I agree it could have been handled differently but the only person hurt was the victim of the attacker... I'm glad the guy who came to the rescue wasn't punished for getting the attacker to submit and saving the woman's life.

    As for the truck rims and tires... I would say "here's $100 bucks go yourself buddy"

  7. #22
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    No good deed...etc etc etc.

    Never get involved in a domestic dispute....THEY always go back...and YOU are the one on the losing end...for being a "nice guy"

    So while the GS isn't going to be charged, you can bet he will be sued civilly--not only for damages, but for emotional, psychological blah blah blah....."your honor, I was trying to leave! I felt threatened...I was trying to disengage and he shot at my truck!"

    This isn't over...for the GS...
    Magazine <> clip - know the difference

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  8. #23
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    His actions were extreme.

    Noble in concept as he had been thinking of things, but none the less extreme and at that unnecessary.
    Regardless of state law supporting action to that end or not I would not have reacted as he did...And at that place my own freedoms and personal wealth in jeopardy.
    Not at all worth the risk to me.

    The woman was already beaten and down.
    He was no longer in a position to harm her or anyone on site. And he was attempting to leave.

    Look, observe...Report.

    Threatening the man, placing himself in danger by purposefully standing in front of a vehicle and then thereafter attempting to claim self defense because the truck revved and came forward is weak. He himself was threatening the man, first, as armed with and by use of lethal force...And he willfully and per his statements purposefully placed himself in front of the vehicle as direct in to dangers way (!).
    He is not a police.
    Yeah okay citizens arrest this 'n that felony assault. He was not stopping an assault, it had already occurred and stopped on it's own...Prior to his arrival (!).

    All the rest about how badly her injury looked as to the non-professional persons on site is of no consequence.
    They say it looked like he hit her with a 2x4. Okay, well where is the 2x4? It is not reported as he having any such type weapon in hand upon contact by the neighbors. A non item.

    He gets off on a technicality as by statute and yeah for him.
    But still his action was wrong and extreme, and he now readily admits that.
    For those of us on this side of the fence this is IMHO a good example of what NOT to do.

    Call the cops...FIRST!
    If the victim is separated from the attacker then great.
    If at all possible as in this case walk the person to the safety of your own home as behind closed and locked door.
    If armed be armed as upon your own person relative to you and/or in this case the victim too.

    But walking away from the victim to issue commands toward a fleeing non-threat so as to detain him and pull of some manner of citizens arrest, that is a slippery slope even in states where as much under circumstance might be supported. Typically which is narrow.

    I'd have let dude drive off and provide the responding cops as much info about him, his vehicle and direction of travel as possible.

    As to my gun it is for two purposes; To train with and to be used only toward defense of life.
    I am not a cop nor deputized by anyone...And thus will not be detaining nor arresting any persons,never mind stepping in front of 2K+ motorized vehicles as though I'm a man made of steel. That's crazy.

    - Janq
    Last edited by Janq; January 28th, 2010 at 04:00 PM.
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  9. #24
    Member Array socal2310's Avatar
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    California residents have the same legal authority to use reasonable force to capture, arrest and prevent the escape of criminals as police. What non LE lack is the civil immunity that police enjoy and in most cases, the necessary knowledge to determine what level of force is reasonable under a given set of circumstances and the appropriate tools to effect the arrest.

    You're covered legally if you want to be an educated mall ninja, but who wants police exposure to liability without qualified immunity? To do something like that in ignorance was beyond foolhardy. I'm glad he got off, but I hope he learned his lesson.

    Ryan
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  10. #25
    VIP Member Array ccw9mm's Avatar
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    The woman was already beaten and down. He was no longer in a position to harm her or anyone on site. And he was attempting to leave.

    Look, observe...Report.
    Yes. If that is the specific circumstance in a situation, then absolutely the best choice is not to "play policeman" and attempt to halt the criminal's departure. That's a recipe for legal and financial disaster.
    Your best weapon is your brain. Don't leave home without it.
    Thoughts: Justifiable self defense (A.O.J.).
    Explain: How does disarming victims reduce the number of victims?
    Reason over Force: Why the Gun is Civilization (Marko Kloos).
    NRA, SAF, GOA, OFF, ACLDN.

  11. #26
    VIP Member Array mlr1m's Avatar
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    Another good reason why people should or might think twice before coming to the aid of someone in trouble.

    Michael

  12. #27
    Distinguished Member Array nutz4utwo's Avatar
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    My state has a law that allows the use of force:

    (2) Whenever necessarily used by a person arresting one who has committed a felony and delivering him or her to a public officer competent to receive him or her into custody;
    http://apps.leg.wa.gov/rcw/default.aspx?cite=9A.16.020
    "a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.

  13. #28
    VIP Member Array Janq's Avatar
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    Many states have similar and same statutes on the books. ^^

    But as noted by socal above you do in most states place yourself at great risk toward jeopardy in both judicial and civil court.

    BTW in many states battery and/or charge of domestic abuse/violence is in it self not a felony level crime. Folk need to know and understand this.
    Hitting a person in the face and causing them to bruise or bleed is not in itself a felony level crime in most states. Even if the person is hit with an object of some sort as in this case is and was undetermined.

    Meanwhile false arrest in many if not most states is a felony level crime.
    So are kidnapping, brandishing of a firearm and discharge of a firearm as while committing a crime...Such as an act of brandishing, kidnapping or false arrest.

    As we have in this specific case example; Per his charge with felonious discharge of a firearm.

    - Janq
    "Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy

    "A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing

  14. #29
    Member Array KralBlbec's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by razor02097 View Post
    Its good to see the kid had the guts to stand up to the attacker. I agree it could have been handled differently but the only person hurt was the victim of the attacker... I'm glad the guy who came to the rescue wasn't punished for getting the attacker to submit and saving the woman's life.

    As for the truck rims and tires... I would say "here's $100 bucks go yourself buddy"
    Sue him back for the cost of the shells :D

  15. #30
    Member Array kccad's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Janq View Post
    His actions were extreme.

    Noble in concept as he had been thinking of things, but none the less extreme and at that unnecessary.
    Regardless of state law supporting action to that end or not I would not have reacted as he did...And at that place my own freedoms and personal wealth in jeopardy.
    Not at all worth the risk to me.

    The woman was already beaten and down.
    He was no longer in a position to harm her or anyone on site. And he was attempting to leave.

    Look, observe...Report.

    Threatening the man, placing himself in danger by purposefully standing in front of a vehicle and then thereafter attempting to claim self defense because the truck revved and came forward is weak. He himself was threatening the man, first, as armed with and by use of lethal force...And he willfully and per his statements purposefully placed himself in front of the vehicle as direct in to dangers way (!).
    He is not a police.
    Yeah okay citizens arrest this 'n that felony assault. He was not stopping an assault, it had already occurred and stopped on it's own...Prior to his arrival (!).

    All the rest about how badly her injury looked as to the non-professional persons on site is of no consequence.
    They say it looked like he hit her with a 2x4. Okay, well where is the 2x4? It is not reported as he having any such type weapon in hand upon contact by the neighbors. A non item.

    He gets off on a technicality as by statute and yeah for him.
    But still his action was wrong and extreme, and he now readily admits that.
    For those of us on this side of the fence this is IMHO a good example of what NOT to do.

    Call the cops...FIRST!
    If the victim is separated from the attacker then great.
    If at all possible as in this case walk the person to the safety of your own home as behind closed and locked door.
    If armed be armed as upon your own person relative to you and/or in this case the victim too.

    But walking away from the victim to issue commands toward a fleeing non-threat so as to detain him and pull of some manner of citizens arrest, that is a slippery slope even in states where as much under circumstance might be supported. Typically which is narrow.

    I'd have let dude drive off and provide the responding cops as much info about him, his vehicle and direction of travel as possible.

    As to my gun it is for two purposes; To train with and to be used only toward defense of life.
    I am not a cop nor deputized by anyone...And thus will not be detaining nor arresting any persons,never mind stepping in front of 2K+ motorized vehicles as though I'm a man made of steel. That's crazy.

    - Janq
    Well thought out and clearly stated, as is typical for your comments, Janq.

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