3 inmates shot during failed prison escape
This is a discussion on 3 inmates shot during failed prison escape within the In the News: The Good, the Bad and the Ugly forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I answered yes, but with some reservations.
First, I would hope that our jail officials are segregating the prisoners into minimum, medium, and maximum security ...
View Poll Results: Is using deadly force reasonable to stop a fleeing felon?
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January 30th, 2010 09:58 PM
I answered yes, but with some reservations.
First, I would hope that our jail officials are segregating the prisoners into minimum, medium, and maximum security prison categories. I can't see shooting folks who walk away from a minimum security prison; and I doubt these facilities are set up to do that.
Now, I had the interesting experience of doing some work at a serious prison for serious offenders. I don't know if it was officially medium or maximum, I suspect medium ( at least in the part I was working at). The facility was surrounded by a very wide (I'd guess 300 yard or more perimeter of mowed lawn so if any prisoner got outside the gate the tower guards had a clear shot and time to get it. That area was surrounded by deep East Texas woods. Even if someone got out, didn't get shot, and made it to the tree line, they weren't getting very far.
Let's face it, guys or gals who are serving 20 + year sentences, and some who are serving shorter terms, are dangerous as can be if they get away. They'll kill or badly hurt someone to facilitate their escape. If the actually make it they'll go after witnesses, lawyers, judges, jurors, family, friends, original crime victim's family, original crime victim who testified, and so on.
They have no way to find money but to steal it, no way to get food but to rob it, no place to sleep (indoors) but to break and hold someone hostage if need be.
Shooting is the only "safe for the rest of us" approach. Is it barbaric? Sure.
So what? We have to protect ourselves.
January 30th, 2010 09:58 PM
January 30th, 2010 10:15 PM
Better to die on your feet, than to live on your knees.
January 30th, 2010 10:16 PM
Warning shots are best when fired ar COM
"Outside of the killings, Washington has one of the lowest crime rates in the country,"
--Mayor Marion Barry, Washington , DC .
January 30th, 2010 10:24 PM
In prison there are prison laws, and regs.
SOP at that prison is you make like a squirrel you get dealt with, like a squirrel.
You don't wind up in such type prisons where there are armed tower guards for having unpaid parking tickets or mouthing off to meter maids.
So I vote yes, reasonable force though as _specifically_ related to that of law enforcement behind fencing as related to wards of the state that are not among work release or some low security type facility.
These people aren't 'felons', they are convicts, who may or may not have committed felony degree crimes. A person can be and are sentenced to time behind bars (prison) as for misdemeanor degree crimes.
Convicts though are convicted criminals serving sentences unfulfilled, regardless of type/degree.
"Killers who are not deterred by laws against murder are not going to be deterred by laws against guns. " - Robert A. Levy
"A license to carry a concealed weapon does not make you a free-lance policeman." - Florida Div. of Licensing
January 30th, 2010 10:34 PM
I vote yes, heck some should be shot right after sentencing...
For as the lightning comes from the east and flashes to the west, so also will the coming of the son of man be. Mathew 24:27
January 30th, 2010 10:38 PM
The guards need additional accuracy training.
"Those who hammer their guns into plows will plow for those who do not." - Thomas Jefferson
January 30th, 2010 10:46 PM
Should read "were taken to the morgue".
the wounded inmates were taken to a hospital
The situation will NEVER BE THE WAY YOU WANT, it WILL BE THE WAY IT IS. You must be FLEXIBLE ENOUGH TO ADAPT and just "DEAL WITH IT".
January 31st, 2010 12:13 AM
If you don't shoot fleeing convicts, they would go downtown every night.
January 31st, 2010 12:38 AM
LOL! Can't disagree with that.
Originally Posted by rottkeeper
January 31st, 2010 12:39 AM
I was a guard, and my orders were to stop fleeing escapees using what ever means were available. In other words, I just shot at them. Whether they lived or died was up to a higher authority. I didn't attempt to murder them, nor to 'shoot them in the leg'. I just shot at them, using all my training to hit a running target. The one time I was placed in this predicament, I was successful, and the inmates lived.
FOP Lodge 55, RPOAC, NRA Life Member
One of the keys to happiness is a bad memory
January 31st, 2010 12:45 AM
Why do the comments below the news articles go on about how barbaric it is to shoot them......when you know good and well if the escapee broke into the commenter's home, raped/pillaged/killed their family.....suddenly we would be getting a different, and quite vehement viewpoint from these commenters.
Drives me nuts! Why can't people think things through before spouting on those news articles?
January 31st, 2010 12:45 AM
If the guards don't shoot there not doing there jobs.
What do you think they have a Shoot - No Shoot List in there towers?
Gosh darned I went and shot one of the "good inmates" should have
asked for his prison ID to double check on the list...
whelp there goes my Christmas bonus
“Put your pain in a box. Lock it down. No man is stronger than one who can harness his emotions.” -Act of Valor
January 31st, 2010 02:40 AM
Generally speaking, "fleeing felons" aren't trying to escape so they can start a bible study... ya know?
ALWAYS carry! - NEVER tell!
"A superior Operator is best defined as someone who uses his superior
judgement to keep himself out of situations that would require a display of his
January 31st, 2010 02:20 PM
The only hesitation I have is that there is there is no good way to provide oversight and there is a possibility of "shoot the fleeing convict" policy being abused.
I assume any escape attempt shootings get reviewed by by prison leadership and a prosecutor to ensure the shooting was legit? If it appeared it wasn't, the guard would be charged with assault or murder?
If Inmate A assisted Inmate B in an escape attempt, upon which Inmate B was shot and killed by a guard, how would that play out? Several states have laws that if you participate during the commission of a crime where someone is killed (escaping from jail is a crime) you can be charged with the person's murder...? Letting someone borrow your toothbrush to jimmy a lock can get you convicted of murder?
I am not fond of convicts, but I am fond of oversight and integrity in the legal process. Hence the hesitation.
"a reminder that no law can replace personal responsibility" - Bill Clinton 2010.
January 31st, 2010 02:26 PM
Inmates become escaped convicts and begin looking for "work" which might involve Innocent people being killed.
I think it's an occupational hazard of being a criminal. You can be killed, trying to escape from prison. Sounds fair to me.
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