This is a discussion on immigration bill within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by jackson85746 ^^^^^^^^^You all aren't even sheep... you are lemmings ^^^^^^^^^ Just looked in the mirror.......I know what a sheep looks like and ...
All the negative responses for this bill are about "citizens rights" being violated and the reason given is because of cops just asking "out of the blue" for papers please. I don't see this as being an issue. I think their hands are full enough already without having the extra duty of just stopping people at random to question someone who looks Mexican.
I would have a problem with that myself but I don't think this is what will happen.
So, that being a non-issue, what other reason would one have to oppose a law that is basically the same as Federal law and actually enforcing it properly?
And the question of papers. Just what are the documents an alien in country should legally have prior to becoming a citizen? Those who oppose it seem to question "just what documentation are you referring too?"
Those who support it (as I do) seem to assume that some form of identification or temporary work status status papers would be issued to someone who crosses over into our country from Mexico.
Surely they had something to show in order to obtain a drivers license or work visa.
“I am consistently on record and will continue to be on record as opposing concealed carry.”
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I truly want to know what the people who say this will lead to a police state think is the answer to the illegal aliens in this country? Fining employers? In the bill and federal law (which is rarely enforced by the feds). Would Arizona putting up a fence with guardtowers and armed guards be OK (since the feds won't)? How about minefields on the border? Too violent and indiscriminate? Bounties on turning in illegals to the police? (Bet that would be effective in this economy.)
The other comment Hopyard keeps coming up with is how long his mom or he went without ID. The reason we need ID for planes now is because the feds won't profile terrorists, told people not to resist (aka be cowards) and took any weapons away from the good guys who fly. Try to go a day now without ID. You won't drive, cash a check, get a drink (if you look under 40), use a credit/debit card, board a plane, get into any secure building or a bunch of other things. And guess what, if you are a suspect in a crime they will hold you until they get a positive ID on you, citizen or not.
Oh, and how stupid was the law before, a man driving a car with drugs in the trunk, no driver's license or insurance or registration, covered in MS-13 tattoos, speaking no English, swearing in Spanish with a Mexican ID in his pocket, stopped 100 yards from the border couldn't be asked to show if he was here legally.
I can't remember where I saw it, but the quote that comes to mind is "The constitution is not a mutual suicide pact".
I think yes, but don't know whether or not the Feds would allow it.In the bill and federal law (which is rarely enforced by the feds). Would Arizona putting up a fence with guardtowers and armed guards be OK (since the feds won't)?
I have no problem with strong border security. It is absolutely the first thing that must be done, because without strong border security everything else is a waste of effort.No, problem provided the mined area is very very well marked with many warning signs and good lighting. I've seen mine fields and "shoot to kill zones" surrounding ammo and nuclear storage on military bases.How about minefields on the border? Too violent and indiscriminate?
Good fences make good neighbors.Maybe. I know from experience that a few years back picking up the phone and calling INS to report an individual who was working who should not have been, accomplished nothing. I got blown off. If there would be a reasonable response this could work--- but then you also have to be sure malicious people just don't report their neighbors who are lawfully here for purely malicious reasons.Bounties on turning in illegals to the police? (Bet that would be effective in this economy.)Not exactly. The airlines wanted ID checks in the 1990s to protect the integrity of their frequent flyer miles programs. They didn't want people transferring the mile by buying a paper ticket with an assumed name. Security became an excuse for the airlines to get what they wanted.The other comment Hopyard keeps coming up with is how long his mom or he went without ID. The reason we need ID for planes now is because the feds won't profile terrorists,
And even today, you can still board a plane without a government issued ID, you just need to jump through some hoops. People get wallets stolen and lost while traveling. People lose ID, for various reasons. I've seen people let through security with just a checkbook for ID. Do you really think you get trapped in NYC if your wallet was lifted? Do you think you will have to walk back to Arizona?I know urban dwellers who don't need cars because they use public transportation. They don't need a DL. They don't need an ID for any everyday activity. There are plenty of ways to handle financial transactions without ID, and ID is not required to use a credit card--in fact merchants are breaking their contract with the card company if they ask for ID.Try to go a day now without ID.
In any case, banks let folks open accounts with the Matricua card issued by the Mexican consulates.
The Matricula Consular de Alta Seguridad (MCAS) (Consular Matriculation of High Security) is an identification card issued by the Government of Mexico through its consulate offices to Mexican nationals residing outside of Mexico regardless of their emigration status. Also known as the Mexican CID card, it has been issued since 1871, and cardholders could be either legal or illegal aliens in the foreign country they are residing in.The police are always welcome to take fingerprints and photos. But, you have to be charged with something to be held more than briefly--Terry stop. Again, the Hiibs case did not make it mandatory for people to carry ID; only that they state their name.And guess what, if you are a suspect in a crime they will hold you until they get a positive ID on you, citizen or not.Yes, and the other quote which applies is the one about those who would give up their rights for security deserve neither security nor liberty.I can't remember where I saw it, but the quote that comes to mind is "The constitution is not a mutual suicide pact"
I've already been injured by an illegal. I was t-boned at an intersection by an illegal immigrant and a Mexican one at that. I'm still not interested in giving up my rights so that the government can ACT like they give two craps about what happens to me or my family.
I grew up in a border state, so don't start preaching to me about how my feelings would change if I felt the impact. Not gonna fly with me.
Proud Lady Blue Dog
As I said before, the ONLY thing you need to do to identify yourself is to give your real name. That is all that is required.
Proud Lady Blue Dog
I would change the word "act" to "pretend" with regard to the unlawful migrant problem. Both the Feds and AZ talk a good talk, but actually do little to solve the problem.
The new AZ law is a pretend simple answer to a complex problem. They are wanting citizens to give up their rights for a make believe
"They who can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary safety, deserve neither liberty nor safety."
How often we have seen that quoted here with regard to minor 2A issues, yet when AZ plans to trample 4th, 5th, and 14th, the very same voices quick to cite Franklin here choose to either remain silent or support the loss of liberty.
I almost wish I had'nt started this thread, but I guess this blister needs squeezed. Reading all the replies, I don't see where anybody has really changed their mind. I have a lot of respect for the opinions of people ON THE BORDER that are really impacted by this, not the ones bussed in to demonstrate. Ironically though, at this rate, more and more of us are going to be "living on the border" if things are'nt fixed soon.
I hope there is a solution that does'nt tear us apart.
Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak
Trust in God and keep your powder dry
"A heavily armed citizenry is not about overthrowing the government; it is about preventing the government from overthrowing liberty. A people stripped of their right of self defense is defenseless against their own government." -source
P.S. Do you guys want a new basket ball team " los suns " might be looking for a new place to live.