immigration bill - Page 22

immigration bill

This is a discussion on immigration bill within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Ok, this is it for me. All of you that are against this bill must be illegal. other wise you would not mind a little ...

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  1. #316
    New Member Array Pocketcarry's Avatar
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    Ok, this is it for me. All of you that are against this bill must be illegal. other wise you would not mind a little time of doing nothing but proving you are an American. If you are in that big of a hurry, should have left earlier. Have a life and come to Oklahoma, we are right be hind them, sheriff trained by ice and we ship them out daily. toodle oooo
    Stupidity on YOUR part will not necessarily constitute an emergency on MINE!


  2. #317
    VIP Member Array edr9x23super's Avatar
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    Ok, this is it for me. All of you that are against this bill must be illegal. other wise you would not mind a little time of doing nothing but proving you are an American. If you are in that big of a hurry, should have left earlier. Have a life and come to Oklahoma, we are right be hind them, sheriff trained by ice and we ship them out daily. toodle oooo
    For once, I see eye-to-eye with a Sooner!!!

    Hook em Horns anyway......
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  3. #318
    Member Array DZcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Pocketcarry View Post
    Ok, this is it for me. All of you that are against this bill must be illegal. other wise you would not mind a little time of doing nothing but proving you are an American.
    Ha!

    Actually, I'm descendant from one of the delegates to the constitutional congress. What else you got?
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  4. #319
    Member Array DZcarry's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Wow Hopyard, it only took you up to Post #310 to come up with that argument. How long did you dig to find that example?
    Actually, he didn't have to go that far. He could have mentioned Guam or American Samoa. They are also dependencies of the US. Never mind the fact that you don't need a visa to come to the US from Canada unless you plan to stay here for an extended period of time.
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  5. #320
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    re: Bark'n --It fell in my lap

    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    Wow Hopyard, it only took you up to Post #310 to come up with that argument. How long did you dig to find that example?
    I didn't dig. It fell in my lap on the news today. Yahoo posted a story about the high rate of enlistments from Micronesia, and in the story they mentioned that while the country is independent, it has agreements with the US, and its people are free to come here and work without visas.

    Truthfully, I'd never heard of any such thing before, and it just tweaked my interest as an example of how "what we think we know" may not be the way "things are." And from there, of course, this special situation shows why immigration laws needs to be enforced only by those trained to be aware of the intricacies.

    It turns out there are two other countries that have the same agreement with us. Who "woulda" thought :)

  6. #321
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    Guam

    Quote Originally Posted by DZcarry View Post
    Actually, he didn't have to go that far. He could have mentioned Guam or American Samoa. They are also dependencies of the US. Never mind the fact that you don't need a visa to come to the US from Canada unless you plan to stay here for an extended period of time.
    Those born in Guam are US citizens. Guam has a non-voting Representative in Congress. I think it is the same situation with American Samoa. Micronesia is a different situation. That is an independent country.


    Guam is a slightly different situation from the one I used as an example; more like Puerto Rico. For those not knowing, yes, Puerto Ricans are US citizens. I have to wonder how many of the AZ gendarmes would know or recognize a Guamanian, Samoan, or even Puerto Rican DL is O.K.

    I doubt that either Puerto Rican Islanders or ethnic Puerto Ricans (such as Jeraldo Rivera of Fox News) living on the mainland will be thrilled to go to AZ. Especially as they can be so easily confused with people of Mexican descent or Mexican origin who might or might not have every right to be here and might or might not be US citizens.

  7. #322
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    Same thing with the Philippine Islands. We have lots of Filipino's serving in the U.S. Navy. Some of them even look like Mexicans.
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  8. #323
    Distinguished Member Array Tally XD's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by DZcarry View Post
    At the risk of going further off topic, I have had three family members murdered (Grandfather murdered in 1980 and step grandma and aunt murdered in 1996). Premeditated murders at that (that's murder 1 in a death penalty state). Guess what, I'm still against the death penalty.

    I've already been injured by an illegal. I was t-boned at an intersection by an illegal immigrant and a Mexican one at that. I'm still not interested in giving up my rights so that the government can ACT like they give two craps about what happens to me or my family.

    I grew up in a border state, so don't start preaching to me about how my feelings would change if I felt the impact. Not gonna fly with me.
    Sorry for your loss and I hope I didn't bring up terrible thoughts. However, I still argue that no one is giving up any rights that are actual CITIZENS.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    It turns out that "The Federated States of Micronesia," has a "special relationship with the US. And not only can their people come here sans visa, they are actively recruited for military service.

    "The compact obligates the US to defend these sovereign countries from attack, and grants their citizens permission to live and work in the US without a visa and serve in its armed forces"

    "the Federated States of Micronesia (FSM) ahead of every US state in Army recruits per capita in recent years."

    The point I'm trying to make is that I don't think your typical local officer untrained in the many intricacies of visas, papers, international relations, treaties, has a chance of enforcing immigration law without messing up big time. Its not their thing, and AZ has put a burden on them they are ill equipped to handle.
    One thing though . . . . people from Micronesia aren't the problem right now. Maybe one day, but for now, its Mexico.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Rights under our constitution apply to persons, not to citizens. When you are present here (as would be the case with the scenario I described) you enjoy every right that everyone else has--- the exceptions carved out by law are releases from obligations-- no obligation (or right) to serve on a jury or right to vote.

    Persons present in the US retain all of the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th amendment rights that apply to anyone else. Citizenship has nothing to do with it.

    You may not like the fact that this is the way the law actually works, but too bad. Learn something before you call someone else a nitwit.
    Uhm, can you prove this to be fact? I have never ever heard anything even remotely like this.
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  9. #324
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    re: Tally XD will this help?

    Quote Originally Posted by Tally XD View Post

    Uhm, can you prove this to be fact? I have never ever heard anything even remotely like this.
    Yes---
    Here's one description from Just Cause Law Collective's web site. But there are innumerable statutes and pieces of case law to back up what I have written.

    "Non-U.S. citizens who’ve been arrested for a crime have the rights to remain silent and to have a lawyer present during questioning. These rights are based on the Fifth and Sixth Amendments to the U.S. Constitution and they protect everyone, citizens and non-citizens, adults and children. You have these rights even if you are “undocumented” or no longer have a valid visa."

  10. #325
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    re: HotGuns Filippinos in the US Navy and visas

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Same thing with the Philippine Islands. We have lots of Filipino's serving in the U.S. Navy. Some of them even look like Mexicans.
    You are correct to a point about the Philippines, but it is a slightly different situation than the one I mentioned regarding citizens of Micronesia.

    The Micronesians have a right to live and work here and to join our military.

    The Filippinos do not have any special right to immigrate here, and (at least as of the late 1970s) military service by itself was not sufficient to gain either a Green Card or US citizenship. (I believe the law changed after the Gulf War.)

    US citizenship was available to Filippinos who enlisted ON US SOIL (literally) and who also served during the Viet Nam era.

    The US would recruit in The Philippines, let someone sign the papers there, serve out an enlistment, and then they still did not have any right to a visa or citizenship unless they
    re-enlisted.

    And the re-enlistment had to be done ON US SOIL--meaning not in an Embassy, not on a military base, but on the Mainland or Hawaii.

    Honest, I fought hard on this one with INS officials--they would not accept a re-enlistment done in an Embassy even after Senatorial intervention.

    I know this well, because my BIL signed his initial enlistment papers while in the Philippines and was not eligible for either a visa or US citizenship unless he signed up again, being careful that the second enlistment was done on US soil. As far as the US was concerned, it was thank you for your 4 years and now go home. (That battle still leaves a bad taste in my mouth and a deep distrust of INS.)

    It turned out that since my BIL served during the Viet Nam era, he was immediately eligible for US Citizenship on signing his re-enlistment papers here on US soil. The trick was to get the Navy and INS to allow him to get here to re-up.

    It almost took an act of Congress to get the Navy to allow him to come to the US for his re-enlistment as he was stationed overseas.

    And yes, Filippinos are mistaken for Mexicans. Which is one reason why I so strenuously dislike the AZ law. I earlier gave the example that he (notwithstanding 25 years of military service and being a US citizen) travels extensively in the US. He would be subject to a different set of rules and risks in AZ than anywhere else in the U.S.

    He would be subject to the profiling inherent in the AZ law-- no matter what their Governor says about it.

  11. #326
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    Not sure what people don't understand about the word illegal.

  12. #327
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    There is a new poll out today on fox news that I think everyone here should read. I'm sorry but my lack of computer skills doesn't allow me to post a link.

  13. #328
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    re: 21 bubba Fox Poll

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    There is a new poll out today on fox news that I think everyone here should read. I'm sorry but my lack of computer skills doesn't allow me to post a link.
    The Fox poll news story starts out: "Most American voters think Arizona was right to pass its own immigration law."

    However, few of those polled have ever heard of, or read, the Supreme Court case: Hines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. 52 (1941)

    Look it up.

    In 1939 PA passed a law requiring aliens to carry an identification card. Sound familiar?


    The Supreme Court struck that law in 1941.

    Check out this url from conservapedia.com
    Hines v. Davidowitz - Conservapedia

    And,

    "Justice Hugo L. Black emphasized the broad power of Congress over this area of law: immigration was not an area of law traditionally delegated to States, but was delegated exclusively to Congress. 312 US 52, 62; 61 S Ct 399; 85 L Ed 581 (1941):"

    From the actual decision: " When the national government by treaty or statute has established rules and regulations touching the rights, privileges, obligations or burdens of aliens as such, the treaty or statute is the supreme law of the land. No state can add to or take from the force and effect of such treaty or statute, "

    Guess what, that's the law. What part of "NO STATE CAN ADD TO OR TAKE FROM" does the AZ legislature not understand?

    I don't doubt that the average fellow (meaning most of us) favors the AZ law, but unfortunately for the AZ legislature's position, there are some thorny constitutional problems with it; and constitutional issues aren't decided by the will of the majority, or polls.

    Existing Supreme Court rulings make it rather plain that AZ overstepped its authority.

  14. #329
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Hopyard maybe you are missing the point.You can quote federal law, state law,laws that are on the books, laws that are not. The people, you know the ones that should have a say in how their city, county, state, country are run are speaking. The unfortunate thing for you is they don't agree with you.

    I'm sure your reply will be rather long winded and attempt to discredit the poll results and that people don't understand what they're voting for. What you seem incapable of understanding is that this has become a war, yes a war and in war everything is not sunshine and flowers.

    You have shown glimmers of logic in some of your posts but regrettably you seem to be unable to see the forest for the trees.

    Please in your reply use as much vigor and "dictionary words" as possible. Also realize as I do that it's your right to disagree because you are An American Citizen.

  15. #330
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    The Fox poll news story starts out: "Most American voters think Arizona was right to pass its own immigration law."

    However, few of those polled have ever heard of, or read, the Supreme Court case: Hines v. Davidowitz, 312 U.S. 52 (1941)

    Look it up.

    In 1939 PA passed a law requiring aliens to carry an identification card. Sound familiar?


    The Supreme Court struck that law in 1941.

    Check out this url from conservapedia.com
    Hines v. Davidowitz - Conservapedia

    And,

    "Justice Hugo L. Black emphasized the broad power of Congress over this area of law: immigration was not an area of law traditionally delegated to States, but was delegated exclusively to Congress. 312 US 52, 62; 61 S Ct 399; 85 L Ed 581 (1941):"

    From the actual decision: " When the national government by treaty or statute has established rules and regulations touching the rights, privileges, obligations or burdens of aliens as such, the treaty or statute is the supreme law of the land. No state can add to or take from the force and effect of such treaty or statute, "

    Guess what, that's the law. What part of "NO STATE CAN ADD TO OR TAKE FROM" does the AZ legislature not understand?

    I don't doubt that the average fellow (meaning most of us) favors the AZ law, but unfortunately for the AZ legislature's position, there are some thorny constitutional problems with it; and constitutional issues aren't decided by the will of the majority, or polls.

    Existing Supreme Court rulings make it rather plain that AZ overstepped its authority.
    If that is true. Your telling me you believe or accept what ever the Supreme Court rules on.Now that is is strange thinking.
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