immigration bill

This is a discussion on immigration bill within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I support this bill. If that makes me a racist I don't much care. I'm tired of illegal, notice the word illegal, immigrants. They are ...

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  1. #31
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    I support this bill. If that makes me a racist I don't much care.

    I'm tired of illegal, notice the word illegal, immigrants. They are a drain on the economy and this country is long past when it could allow any old Jesus, Maria and Jorge to come over and trabajo for da' norte americano gringo.

    I love mexicans, IN MEXICO!

    If someone wants to come here, let them do it the legal and proper way. My wife did. Why should we pay for their medical care, schooling or anything else when they are here illegally?

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  3. #32
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    Quote Originally Posted by BikerRN View Post
    I support this bill. If that makes me a racist I don't much care.

    I'm tired of illegal, notice the word illegal, immigrants. They are a drain on the economy and this country is long past when it could allow any old Jesus, Maria and Jorge to come over and trabajo for da' norte americano gringo.

    I love mexicans, IN MEXICO!

    If someone wants to come here, let them do it the legal and proper way. My wife did. Why should we pay for their medical care, schooling or anything else when they are here illegally?

    Biker
    Why is this just singled out to Mexicans then? There are many illegal people from European countries too as one pointed out but they won't get harassed. As you yourself only singled out Mexicans! They aren't the only ones but they will catch the brunt of this because of their skin color they will be targeted as well as many Mexican Americans. What makes this any different than Nazi Germany, or the concentration camps years ago? Laws like this is how those things get started, singling out and rounding up groups of people and if some happen to be American, so be it. I doubt you would appreciate this bill if you were asked to produce papers to prove you are a citizen regularly.

  4. #33
    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Oklahoma passed a similar law in late 2007 and there were all sorts of dire predictions like the ones I'm seeing here about destroying the economy and racial profiling. None of these dire predictions have come true to my knowledge. Some parts of the Oklahoma bill (House Bill 1804, the Oklahoma Taxpayer and Citizen Protection Act of 2007) have been challenged in court, but the bulk of the provisions in the law have stood up.

    The effectiveness of this law is debatable in the long term however. When it first took effect there were reports of large numbers of illegal aliens leaving the state, but some claim that many have returned.
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  5. #34
    Senior Member Array CEW58's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    It's all good until YOU are the one who's being racially profiled because of the color of your skin! I am a US Citizen, I proudly served MY country and I DO NOT WANT TO BE STOPPED like a "criminal" and questioned about my citizenship because of my appearance! You people who say this is not racist...how are police supposed to distinguish between a legal Mexican and an Illegal Mexican? I am ashamed of Arizona and the extremely poor judgment is has shown!
    I could see where something like that could happen. Back in the mid 70's I was stationed at Fort Carson, CO and had a Latino buddy who was born and raised in New Mexico. He decided to go on leave in Mexico since he had never been there. While there his wallet with all his I.D. was either lost or stolen, and when he tried to return to the U.S. he was detained at the border and returned to Mexico! It took him almost a week to convince them to call his unit and verify who he was! Of course since he had not returned from leave he was being carried as AWOL until it all got cleared up.
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  6. #35
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    The only people that are going to dislike this bill are the liberals and the illegals and people that aren't smart enough to figure it out. Nothing new there.

    We'll hear the usual predictions of how the economy will tank, how terrible it'll be for everyone and how difficult it will be to tell the good from the bad...pretty much the same ole tired and worn out argument that libs use for everything.

    Heres a news flash...
    Americans citizens are getting tired of it. The Feds are using illegal immigration to further their goals and the common citizen is starting to wake up and figure out that they don't want to have to wait at the ER when they are hurt because the illegals are using it as a day clinic, they are getting upset when the see that illegals are drawing Social Security benefits that the never payed into, they get really mad when they get rear ended by some illegal that cant speak English and he doesn't have insurance or a drivers license and they are getting very tired of having to look for the English on a set of instructions. They don't like seeing class room fulls of students that are illegal and they don't like paying for them to get educated. They don't like seeing Mexican flags everywhere and they are getting tired of the double standards.

    The Feds are encouraging illegal aliens to come into this country. The Democrats and the RINO's in office have figured out that granting amnesty to the 20 million or so that they say are here, will turn into 40 -50 million instant votes for the Democrats who are beginning to realize that most thinking people are tired of their socialist ways. What is the government doing about it?
    Not a thing, except fighting any attempt to stop it.

    They called local citizen groups that were watching the borders," vigilantes"and did what they could do to impede them. They discourage and even jail their own Border Patrol agents for doing their jobs or even defending themselves.
    They let their own agents continue to be outgunned, out-manned and now even when the gang violence and drug cartel actions result in American citizens being killed in our own backyard, they refuse to use the assets of the greatest Military force in the world to respond in kind and totally eliminate the threat once and for all.

    And now that some people are taking note and trying to actually DO something about a situation that never should have taken place to begin with, we will hear whining and moaning and gnashing of teeth about how terrible it will all be and all the stops will be pulled out to make sure that it doesn't happen.

    As for me, I say its about time.

    You want live here and become a citizen, then do it right. Otherwise, get the heck out and stay out.
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  7. #36
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The only people that are going to dislike this bill are the liberals and the illegals and people that aren't smart enough to figure it out. Nothing new there.

    We'll hear the usual predictions of how the economy will tank, how terrible it'll be for everyone and how difficult it will be to tell the good from the bad...pretty much the same ole tired and worn out argument that libs use for everything.

    Heres a news flash...
    Americans citizens are getting tired of it. The Feds are using illegal immigration to further their goals and the common citizen is starting to wake up and figure out that they don't want to have to wait at the ER when they are hurt because the illegals are using it as a day clinic, they are getting upset when the see that illegals are drawing Social Security benefits that the never payed into, they get really mad when they get rear ended by some illegal that cant speak English and he doesn't have insurance or a drivers license and they are getting very tired of having to look for the English on a set of instructions. They don't like seeing class room fulls of students that are illegal and they don't like paying for them to get educated. They don't like seeing Mexican flags everywhere and they are getting tired of the double standards.

    The Feds are encouraging illegal aliens to come into this country. The Democrats and the RINO's in office have figured out that granting amnesty to the 20 million or so that they say are here, will turn into 40 -50 million instant votes for the Democrats who are beginning to realize that most thinking people are tired of their socialist ways. What is the government doing about it?
    Not a thing, except fighting any attempt to stop it.

    They called local citizen groups that were watching the borders," vigilantes"and did what they could do to impede them. They discourage and even jail their own Border Patrol agents for doing their jobs or even defending themselves.
    They let their own agents continue to be outgunned, out-manned and now even when the gang violence and drug cartel actions result in American citizens being killed in our own backyard, they refuse to use the assets of the greatest Military force in the world to respond in kind and totally eliminate the threat once and for all.

    And now that some people are taking note and trying to actually DO something about a situation that never should have taken place to begin with, we will hear whining and moaning and gnashing of teeth about how terrible it will all be and all the stop will be pulled out to make sure that it doesn't happen.

    As for me, I say its about time.

    You want live here and become a citizen, then do it right. Otherwise, get the heck out and stay out.
    You have it so right.
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  8. #37
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by satcong View Post
    you have it so right.
    exactly

  9. #38
    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    The only people that are going to dislike this bill are the liberals and the illegals and people that aren't smart enough to figure it out. Nothing new there.

    The Feds are encouraging illegal aliens to come into this country. The Democrats and the RINO's in office have figured out that granting amnesty to the 20 million or so that they say are here, will turn into 40 -50 million instant votes for the Democrats who are beginning to realize that most thinking people are tired of their socialist ways. What is the government doing about it?
    Not a thing, except fighting any attempt to stop it.
    You're right. The Dems and libs have had over a year with the power to take care of this problem. What's the hold up? I mean the Republicans and conservatives had it all cleaned up when they controlled DC. This isn't a Dem or Rep problem. It's not a lib or cons problem. It's an American problem that neither side has done anything about except talk a big game while the country goes broke paying for illegals.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Heres a news flash...
    Americans citizens are getting tired of it. The Feds are using illegal immigration to further their goals and the common citizen is starting to wake up and figure out that they don't want to have to wait at the ER when they are hurt because the illegals are using it as a day clinic, they are getting upset when the see that illegals are drawing Social Security benefits that the never payed into, they get really mad when they get rear ended by some illegal that cant speak English and he doesn't have insurance or a drivers license and they are getting very tired of having to look for the English on a set of instructions. They don't like seeing class room fulls of students that are illegal and they don't like paying for them to get educated. They don't like seeing Mexican flags everywhere and they are getting tired of the double standards.
    I agree 100%. But I still don't think that this law is the way to do it. Even after a night's sleep, I think my previous idea was a good one. I'm pretty sure it is already illegal to hire illegal aliens. Why aren't these laws enforced? Why are employers still flouting the law? What is a new law going to accomplish, especially one as intrusive as this one on law abiding citizens when they won't enforce existing laws? It's a very similar situation to our own beliefs on gun laws.

    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    They called local citizen groups that were watching the borders," vigilantes"and did what they could do to impede them. They discourage and even jail their own Border Patrol agents for doing their jobs or even defending themselves.
    They let their own agents continue to be outgunned, out-manned and now even when the gang violence and drug cartel actions result in American citizens being killed in our own backyard, they refuse to use the assets of the greatest Military force in the world to respond in kind and totally eliminate the threat once and for all.
    I agree. Why don't we have more bases closer to our borders? As much as it would cost, I would prefer installing a real border to the north and south. Continuous fences, electronic monitoring, and patrolled by our military with checkpoints to cross the border.


    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    You want live here and become a citizen, then do it right. Otherwise, get the heck out and stay out.
    I agree too. I just have a difference of opinion on how to do it. I am of the opinion that this is one of those slippery slopes that once we start down there is no coming back. This could easily turn the entire country into a "Papers Please" society that I want no part of. I really dislike the idea of trading liberty for security and it frightens me that so many people that would normally think otherwise are willing to make an exception in this case.
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  10. #39
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by CplVargas View Post
    It's all good until YOU are the one who's being racially profiled because of the color of your skin! I am a US Citizen, I proudly served MY country and I DO NOT WANT TO BE STOPPED like a "criminal" and questioned about my citizenship because of my appearance! You people who say this is not racist...how are police supposed to distinguish between a legal Mexican and an Illegal Mexican? I am ashamed of Arizona and the extremely poor judgment is has shown!
    They'll know the difference by checking thier legal status! That's what this is all about. How many more U.S. citizens are going to be killed and how much more drugs are going to come in before we get a handle on this? When a terrorist intent on massive harm finally walks across the border and isn't ever questioned because of " political correctness"??
    You can call it poor judgment if you want, I call it surviving.
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  11. #40
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    Quote Originally Posted by ccroom View Post
    HOPYARD, if I was in that situation, I would carry a certified birth certificate with me. If I travel to another state I check the CC laws. When I go through Arizona in the near future I will carry certified birth certicates and my wife's immigration papers with us. Not a big deal. If you immigrated here or were born here and you have a different skin color, be safe, carry papers. By the way white people are immigrants to the U.S. The fact is we all need to carry ID for several different reasons.
    Yes, all those who look different must carry a birth certificate, or a passport when in AZ. Brilliant, not. Why should some citizens have one set of obligations that another set of citizens doesn't have?

    We btw don't all need to carry ID. If you don't drive and you don't fly and you don't carry, there is almost no circumstance in which you must carry ID for legal reasons. E.g., my son lives in the center of a large city. He doesn't need a DL. The only time he ever uses it is to get on an airplane. If the AZ law were implemented where he lives he might very well need to carry around a birth

    The absurdity of what AZ has done is evident in this example. MY BIL travels throughout the US to do his job. Now, he will have to anticipate going to AZ and go prepared with a passport, since a DL does not show status.

    If he is assigned to do a job in GA, and then asked to do an emergency repair in AZ, he will need to fly home just to pick up his papers.

    What AZ has done is create two sets of rules. One for white americans (and effectively white immigrants) and one for everyone who is of asian or latin descent.

    Moreover, they have moved the country closer to the thing so many conservatives who post here repeatedly complain of-- the slow movement to a "papers please" society.

    You can't have it both ways on ideological principles.

    And do keep in mind that this business of showing a DL for ID is a relatively new thing. It wasn't required for air travel until about 15 years ago. And prior to the 1980s many DLs were little more than cardboard with inked in descriptions of height and weight and eye color. The technology for mass producing photo IDs was limited and expensive.

    We have choice in this country and are at a cross roads. We can use the illegal alien calamity as an excuse to move toward totalitarian approaches to every day life ( the AZ solution) or we can do things which are less damaging to a free society; stiff employer sanctions and strict border control.

  12. #41
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    Quote Originally Posted by J400Cali View Post
    Why is this just singled out to Mexicans then? There are many illegal people from European countries too as one pointed out but they won't get harassed.
    Europeans don't go into Arizona to murder and kidnap it's citizens.
    Last edited by zacii; April 24th, 2010 at 04:11 PM. Reason: spelling
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  13. #42
    Ex Member Array BikerRN's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    You're right. The Dems and libs have had over a year with the power to take care of this problem. What's the hold up? I mean the Republicans and conservatives had it all cleaned up when they controlled DC. This isn't a Dem or Rep problem. It's not a lib or cons problem. It's an American problem that neither side has done anything about except talk a big game while the country goes broke paying for illegals.



    I agree 100%. But I still don't think that this law is the way to do it. Even after a night's sleep, I think my previous idea was a good one. I'm pretty sure it is already illegal to hire illegal aliens. Why aren't these laws enforced? Why are employers still flouting the law? What is a new law going to accomplish, especially one as intrusive as this one on law abiding citizens when they won't enforce existing laws? It's a very similar situation to our own beliefs on gun laws.



    I agree. Why don't we have more bases closer to our borders? As much as it would cost, I would prefer installing a real border to the north and south. Continuous fences, electronic monitoring, and patrolled by our military with checkpoints to cross the border.




    I agree too. I just have a difference of opinion on how to do it. I am of the opinion that this is one of those slippery slopes that once we start down there is no coming back. This could easily turn the entire country into a "Papers Please" society that I want no part of. I really dislike the idea of trading liberty for security and it frightens me that so many people that would normally think otherwise are willing to make an exception in this case.
    In my case it's because I have had enough with illegal aliens.
    Biker

    EDIT TO ADD:
    The above comment was made out of anger and frustration with the situation we are in as a nation. I'm tired of having to speak a foriegn language in my own country. I am tired of being made to wait at the hospital because some illegal, that is never going to pay for the services he or she receives, wants their dehydration and blisters, and subsequent renal failure, treated. I am tired of paying for their children to go to our schools, at our expense, and having to teach them in their native tongue. I am tired of mexicans from mexico siphoning off from us and then going home like we are the "money tap".
    I am in no way advocating committing illegal acts. If the laws were different however, and one could purchase an illegal hunting permit, with the situation being what it is now, I would do so. I see illegals as less than human because I've seen too many of them, and the problems they create.

    If that makes me a racist, call me a racist. I don't much care.
    Last edited by HotGuns; April 25th, 2010 at 07:39 PM. Reason: edited

  14. #43
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    I am of the opinion that this is one of those slippery slopes that once we start down there is no coming back.
    I agree. What we are doing now isn't working and it isn't working because the Feds choose NOT to enforce existing law. Since they choose to be bystanders, its going to be the States that have to enforce the law. The problem is that the states are not set up to enforce Federal law, so they are making their own laws to enforce. I have no problem with that.

    We have a President that cant even produce a valid birth certificate. Is it any wonder that he's squalling like a mashed cat? It's typical really. We wont do anything, but we don't want you doing anything either. Same old crap.

    This could easily turn the entire country into a "Papers Please" society that I want no part of. I really dislike the idea of trading liberty for security and it frightens me that so many people that would normally think otherwise are willing to make an exception in this case.
    I understand that. As for trading liberty for security, how secure are we right now? We aren't. We have two of the largest unsecured borders in the world and the southern one is becoming a major problem.
    It's only become that way since people started becoming "politically correct" and compromising on issues that shouldn't be compromised.

    Fact of the matter is, most of our Congressmen and Senators don't have the balls to do the right thing because someone might be offended. Maybe they never had a set to begin with, or maybe they were never taught the difference between right or wrong as a kid in grade school. They are so worried about hurting someones feelings that they have been ineffective and inefficient, all due to the mantra of political correctness.

    This system that we have only works if it is administrated by moral men. Men that know how to act for the best interest of its citizens, men that hold themselves to a higher accountability. Men that will do the right thing even if it means offending some illegal that cant speak English,wasn't born here, and really has no right to be here.

    The only exceptions that have been made here are the ones the Federal Government choose to make by not enforcing the laws that we already have on the books.

    By default, it is up to the states to decide the matter.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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  15. #44
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    Border jumpers are criminals. We have already had several US citizens murdered by border jumpers. If a mexican wants to come to this country, he can do so legally, just like anyone from any other country has to. Why should they be the exception to the law?
    This step wouldn't have even been necessary if they would have followed the law in the first place.
    I doubt there are any illegal Irish, Germans or Turks here, that's a big ocean to swim.
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  16. #45
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    We have choice in this country and are at a cross roads. We can use the illegal alien calamity as an excuse to move toward totalitarian approaches to every day life ( the AZ solution) or we can do things which are less damaging to a free society; stiff employer sanctions and strict border control.
    That I can agree with.

    Sort of makes you wonder why the Federal Government has let us get in this calamity doesn't it?

    Fabricate a crisis and then enact the measures to control it. Governments have been using that principal for years, only most people dont see it because they have been dumbed down to the point of being incapable of it.
    I would rather stand against the cannons of the wicked than against the prayers of the righteous.


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