immigration bill - Page 5

immigration bill

This is a discussion on immigration bill within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Being a LEO in AZ I don't see much change. I have contact with Illegals all the time..but because I can't enforce Federal law I ...

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  1. #61
    Member Array TapRackBang's Avatar
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    Being a LEO in AZ I don't see much change.

    I have contact with Illegals all the time..but because I can't enforce Federal law I have to let them go..Its a waste of time to even give them a ticket because you can't enforce it..they don't care if thier license is suspended..they don't have one anyway. No insurance..no problem..what ya gonna do..

    I also stop alot of people from other non latin countries here on holidays and the funny thing is that when I ask them for their licence and registration..they also provide a passport, without me asking..what a novel idea..having enough respect for a country's soverinty to get permission to come her and to prove that you are here legally without being asked.

    You wanna see what no rights are, go to mexico and refuse to pay a required bribe or see what a real corrupt police looks like, You'll be begging to see your local cop that asks for ID and doesn't rob or rape you..I always chuckle when people talk about corrupt cops here..brother you don't have a clue what corruption looks like.

    You are assuming that LEOs can't figure out a persons status unless they show an assortment of ID..A couple of questions usually get it done...Its not brain surgery.. I know some have a great distrust of LEO and feel that any inquiry by LEO is a great infringement on thier liberties. Some will feel that way reguardless.

    I think the law is a good first step..its mostly a finger towards Washington IMHO. AZis one of the states that are in the eye of the storm & the Feds do nothing but give lip service...

    AZ has big time budget problems..Time to thin the herd and save some money.
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams


  2. #62
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    SAT-CONG, why is it that the only thing you do is attack HOPYARD with childish statements such as " if you don't like it stay out of my state?" You may not agree with HOPYARD, but to not consider what he is saying is foolish and narrow at best. Maybe the law is a bad law. I don't like the illegals in this country anymore than the next person. My wife is from SA, and we have payed a small fortune to pay the expenses associated with legal entry and citizenship. But let us not be blinded by our bias on this issue. I suppose you are a Vietnam veteran by your avatar, so you have earned the right to express your opinions. I too am a veteran. But guess what? All of our service to country, and every drop of American blood shed, is not worth a damn if a law is passed that effects one american because of the way they look or the color of their skin! Everyday thousands of illegals are arrested around this country for not obeying our laws, and turned loose after a small fine because ICE is not interested in deporting them due to lack of funding or manpower issues. We need to adress and fix this problem, not look for ways to harm americans due to the color of their skin. What are you people thinking?! This is no different than more guns law being passed because the existing ones aren't enforced. You who would champion such laws are no patriots, but of the same kind who would have been worked into a fevered frenzy of hatred by Adolf Hitler. Lets not lose sight of the real issue, and solve it using the political process by voting for people who want to get serious about immigration reform and start with enforcing existing laws instead of making stupid mistakes that hurt americans of color.

  3. #63
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    re: Dakota97

    Quote Originally Posted by Dakota97 View Post
    Way to go AZ. There should be an INFORCED federal law that anyone that is illegal is deported immeidately on the next plane to their home country. Caught illegally in the country? No going anywhere except to the nearest airport. If the illegal's family is in the US illegally, they could be called from the they are deported to. Also any US employer who hires a foreign national should require documentation of citizenship or work visa. A US citizen who knowingly provides work for an illegal should face MANDATORY jail time upon conviction. If no work, there would be far fewer illegals.
    Nice try, but no one was claiming a right to arrest you if it wasn't on your person. You needed it for civil matters, not to go about your daily business free from a threat of arrest.

    Lots of folks here have been very vociferous in their opposition to the Real ID Act, and it is truly ironic that some of these same people who don't want to walk around with "papers" or be asked for "papers" think it is fine to do that to other citizens.

  4. #64
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    re: automatic slim

    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    I doubt there are any illegal Irish, Germans or Turks here, that's a big ocean to swim.
    In the north east of the US, around Boston especially, there has been a very large problem with illegal Irish immigrants. They don't swim. They fly in and overstay tourist visas. Or they cross in from Canada and never leave.

    Should it happen that one of these illegal Irish immigrants goes to AZ they won't be asked for papers-- because they look to be stereotypical Americans, which is how they blend and manage to stay illegally in the first place.

    So, how in the world is the AZ law going to do a dang thing about this segment of the illegal population? It can't. It can't because it is entirely based on the notion of racial or ethnic profiling.

    Mr. McGuiness the illegal Irish immigrant would find no trouble in Arizona, but Mr. Cedeno born in NYC of Puerto Rican parents (Puero Rico in case you don't know is part of the US and folks from there are US citizens) would be stopped and face arrest if he didn't walk around with a birth certificate or a passport. That is an absurd result.

    You may not care a fig about the feelings of others and the issue of profiling, but if you are a true conservative who believes in our constitution you should at least believe in the equal protection clause of our constitution. That means, no special obligations on one group of people that are not imposed on the whole of the citizenry.

    Arizona passed a law which is unconstitutional on its face, and the state will pay in lost tourism, lost revenue, lost population, endless law suits and resultant damages, and reputation.

  5. #65
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    What I find interesting is when 1 of us, a CCW holder does something silly or stupid with his or her weapon, say stop a shoplifter, or stop someone from breaking into a car, most here say "take his permit away, put them in jail, or hang them." We are willing to call a fool a fool, but those of you that are of Mexican race or looks have not stood up and SCREAMED for change of border procedures, or stiff jail time for the ones that come across.

    It's alway, "they are just trying to better themselves" can't hold that against them.

    The big "melting pot" has been boiling over, and someone finally turned the heat up to cool it down.

    Z
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  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    In the north east of the US, around Boston especially, there has been a very large problem with illegal Irish immigrants. They don't swim. They fly in and overstay tourist visas. Or they cross in from Canada and never leave.

    Should it happen that one of these illegal Irish immigrants goes to AZ they won't be asked for papers-- because they look to be stereotypical Americans, which is how they blend and manage to stay illegally in the first place.
    That is complete and utter speculation on your part. I've spent time with Border Patrol and local county LEOs in training courses out here in the desert, and the "illegal immigrant" problem is clearly recognized as extending beyond transgressors from south of the border. AZ seems to be a magnet for illegals from all over, including white folks from Canada and Europe. We discussed "racial profiling", and while there is no doubt that that occurs between the ears, if you think for a minute that illegals other than Hispanics get a free pass, you are sorely mistaken.

    You were holding a piece of high ground with your arguments, but you lost it with this post.
    Smitty
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  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by SleepingZ View Post
    What I find interesting is when 1 of us, a CCW holder does something silly or stupid with his or her weapon, say stop a shoplifter, or stop someone from breaking into a car, most here say "take his permit away, put them in jail, or hang them." We are willing to call a fool a fool, but those of you that are of Mexican race or looks have not stood up and SCREAMED for change of border procedures, or stiff jail time for the ones that come across.

    It's alway, "they are just trying to better themselves" can't hold that against them.

    The big "melting pot" has been boiling over, and someone finally turned the heat up to cool it down.

    Z
    Where did you get this info? The heat is up alright, but only in AZ. Will AZ deport every single illegal on its own budget? How much money can it afford to spend on this endeavor? And once it cleanses itself of all unsavory illegals, can it substane its efforts financially? If not , what has been accomplished?

  8. #68
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Here in Kentucky we have a real problem with illegal immigrants from Mexico. They migrate here to work on the horse farms and have taken over many parts of the communitys. For the most part they are friendly and pose no real threat, but are a nusiance in other ways. They drink excessivly, and are often disruptive, drive with no insurrance or DL. They try to live pretty much the way they lived in Mexico. Domestic violence is also a problem, because it is not frowned upon where they come from. They make up about 20% of the jail population. I know this because I deal with them in an LEO capacity. I strongly support reform to reverse this trend, however it must be done without violating the rights of legal residents of this country. We must demand the federal goverment hold up to its responsibility to protect this country and enforce existing law, not encourage new laws that encroach on the law abiding citizen or legal residents of this country. To be for this would be hypocritic on our part. Just say no to concrete thinking.

  9. #69
    Member Array hk45c's Avatar
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    So I just read the bill. I redact my previous statement. I do belive something needs to be done. It is not fair to the individuals who (like me) have spent a year out of work waiting on a work permit and paying the $1,000. But everyone in the US should have the freedom to walk down the street without being harrased.

    My previous post is evidence of what happens when you let someone else tell you what is in a law....oh well forgive me other rant.
    Last edited by hk45c; April 25th, 2010 at 02:10 AM.

  10. #70
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    Here in Kentucky we have a real problem with illegal immigrants from Mexico. They migrate here to work on the horse farms and have taken over many parts of the communitys. For the most part they are friendly and pose no real threat, but are a nusiance in other ways. They drink excessivly, and are often disruptive, drive with no insurrance or DL. They try to live pretty much the way they lived in Mexico. Domestic violence is also a problem, because it is not frowned upon where they come from. They make up about 20% of the jail population. I know this because I deal with them in an LEO capacity. I strongly support reform to reverse this trend, however it must be done without violating the rights of legal residents of this country. We must demand the federal goverment hold up to its responsibility to protect this country and enforce existing law, not encourage new laws that encroach on the law abiding citizen or legal residents of this country. To be for this would be hypocritic on our part. Just say no to concrete thinking.
    We in Kentucky aren't even in the same ballpark with the southern border states when it comes to problems with illegals.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Neither do second generation Asians, second generation Guatemalans, first generation legal immigrants in general.

    There is a little clause in our constitution about equal protection. (You know, the part that caused GWB to get installed by the Supremes).

    The AZ law denies equal protection to all US citizens. It effectively says some US citizens must carry a birth certificate or a passport but others don't need to do so; and the difference is their appearance.
    Thank you!!

  12. #72
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    It seems that the majority of the people who like this bill are white Americans, it doesn't effect them so to hell with the rest of them right? I agree that something needs to be done about the people who are here illegally. But let's figure out a way to not effect the Americans who are not white as well. Someone mentioned that European immigrants don't kill and whatever else you said. You might want to look at the facts. Russian mafia has been strong in some areas of this country. The Asian gangs have been strong in many parts of California but the target has been on the Mexicans. Meanwhile the Asian-American, the Mexican-American who are my co-workers can potentially be harassed due to how they look if they decide to go to AZ? How is that fair to them? I think someone said it earlier, you can't have it both ways. We are either free or not.

  13. #73
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    We in Kentucky aren't even in the same ballpark with the southern border states when it comes to problems with illegals.
    Didn't say we were. Just sayin the problem is not limited to AZ.

  14. #74
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    For the most part they are friendly and pose no real threat
    They drink excessivly, and are often disruptive, drive with no insurrance or DL. They try to live pretty much the way they lived in Mexico. Domestic violence is also a problem, because it is not frowned upon where they come from. They make up about 20% of the jail population.
    Hmmmmm...Lets see..driving drunk..no threat..Domestic violence (the number one way cops get hurt) no threat...20% of Jail pop ..Gangs maybe..no threat..you might wanna reconsider you post..cuz your making a better argument for keeping them out....
    "Arms in the hands of individual citizens may be used at individual discretion..in private self defense." John Adams

  15. #75
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    I love all the people on here that post lies about this issue that haven't even read the bill. Nobody needs to carry a birth certificate. Nobody will be stopped based on race. All this bill does it let the investigating officer inquire about your legal status if they have a reasonable suspicion that you are here illegally. If you are a legal U.S. citizen, you have nothing to worry about. If you are here illegally, you better pack your bags, cuz you're goin' back home.

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