immigration bill

immigration bill

This is a discussion on immigration bill within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; The Arizona Gov. just signed the new immigration bill into law today. About time somebody has, in my opinion...

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  1. #1
    Senior Member Array boatail's Avatar
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    immigration bill

    The Arizona Gov. just signed the new immigration bill into law today. About time somebody has, in my opinion
    Light travels faster than sound...thats why some people appear bright before they speak


  2. #2
    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    The other opinion on it.
    U.S.?s Toughest Immigration Bill Is Signed in Arizona - NYTimes.com

    Not sure how I feel about it. I agree with parts of both sides.
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

    Patrick Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

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    Really really mixed feelings about it. Something has to be done about the problem, but this on the surface appears to open the door to many many additional problems. Since my spouse is Asian yet often mistaken for Mexican, I suppose we'll just avoid Arizona. Why look for trouble?

    My prediction, it won't be long before a native born US Citizen is arrested. Then we'll see the fur fly.

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    Distinguished Member Array Der Alte's Avatar
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    There is only one side - if you don't belong here, goodbye. I know old Sheriff Joe Arpiao is smiling:) Something had to be done since the federal govt won't do their job - God Bless Arizona.
    Its a shame that youth is wasted on the young.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    What don't you see? The fact that the same laws are federal laws and they do not enforce them? The fact that we as residents are fed up?

    What fur fly? Many US citizens are arrested every day in error.

    Did you even READ The bill? Unless you and your spouse are breaking the law they wont even have contact with you. As a matter of fact a simple DL will solve the issue. Much like it does in a traffic stop. Things wont change, the only thing different will be harsher penalties for employers and they will have the right to ask your citizenship and then verify it if they are suspicious when they have contact with you.

    There arent going to be checkpoints, and people arent gonna get pulled over because they look hispanic, people are jumping to conclusions before they have even read the bill text.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus View Post
    The other opinion on it.
    U.S.?s Toughest Immigration Bill Is Signed in Arizona - NYTimes.com

    Not sure how I feel about it. I agree with parts of both sides.
    The law opened a deep fissure in Arizona, with a majority of the thousands of callers to the governor’s office urging her to reject the law.
    That is BS reporting, my mother works in the Capitol and the OVERWHELMING MAJORITY of the calls and emails were to support the signing of the bill

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    re: azchevy

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    What don't you see? The fact that the same laws are federal laws and they do not enforce them? The fact that we as residents are fed up?

    What fur fly? Many US citizens are arrested every day in error.
    Yup, and what is the first thing they usually do afterward?

    Sorry, you won't see us in AZ again. Not worth the potential trouble.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Yup, and what is the first thing they usually do afterward?

    Sorry, you won't see us in AZ again. Not worth the potential trouble.
    And when Texas passes their version then what? Off to California where it is safe?

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    Hats-off to Arizona for enforcing a law that the Feds for some reason refuse to..
    "Leave the gun. Take the cannoli" Clemenza

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    Distinguished Member Array morintp's Avatar
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    Papers please.
    64,999,987 firearms owners killed no one yesterday.

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    re: azchevy

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    And when Texas passes their version then what? Off to California where it is safe?
    This is precisely how you make refugees out of citizens. Keep on making fun. In point of fact should TX go this route we would leave. Likely to Iowa or MN. And if this craziness continued to spread we would unfortunately become refugees of one sort or another.

    You see the whole AZ plan is mindless.

    Folks come here and want it both ways. They want to claim they are conservatives and that US citizens have rights; but then they make fun of other citizens and take steps to limit their rights.

    They think other citizens should have to carry papers but they should be exempt because their skin is the right hew. How many illegal Irish do you think your AZ police will be stopping? Or illegal English? Or illegal Russians? Likely, they'll be stopping some native Americans. Guaranteed. It is also guaranteed they will arrest at least some native born Hispanics. How many millions of your state coffers (tax dollars) do you think these victims will have when they win the lottery in court?

    The AZ law is so broad (if I am understanding it) that anyone who isn't very clearly a caucasian native born American might be asked for papers. Papers being more than a DL, proof of status, which most DLs are not.

    Thankfully so far the only time I have needed my passport or my wife hers is when we travel into the US from abroad. I have no intention of putting myself in that position--carrying around a passport --to go stay in your wonderful AZ Biltmore.

    So guys, you lose. You lose revenue I won't be spending in your airport. You lose rental car revenue I won't be spending. You lose hotel revenue and occupancy taxes. You lose restaurant business and you lose sports event attendance.

    Make fun.

    The AZ economy is going down the toilet from this one. It is only a matter of time. Because there are very very many people who are likely to feel the same way on this issue. And some are affluent who just might decide that AZ isn't where they want to retire.

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    Ex Member Array azchevy's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by morintp View Post
    Papers please.
    Correct, immigrants will be required to carry their paperwork at all times... which is pretty much federal law that has not been enforced.

    I think it is funny that everyone is all butthurt about this. My fiance is 100% MEXICAN descent 2d generation LEGAL American and neither her nor I, nor her legal immigrant family who do not have citizenship but green cards, are afraid or worried about this law. The only ones worried are the illegals or those with something to hide.

    Again, if you have contact with LE due to a crime, traffic violation, or being a general jerk, you will be required to show ID, if you do not have ID you will be required to show your immigration papers or produce ID. If you have neither they can hold you until your ID and or citizenship is determined. Much like real life day to day AZ folks, except now they don't have to call ICE and get the "wait two hours we are busy" they can do it themselves instead of having to let them go.

    Go ahead and tell an LEO on your next traffic stop that you don't have to show your "papers" i.e. license registration and insurance because it violates your civil liberties and get back to us on what happens

    Honestly this makes me happy. Between this and permit less concealed carry It is offending the liberals, ant-gun people, and metro pansies that we don't want in this state anyway. Maybe they will stop visiting and moving here so we can go about our business being rugged free Americans without all the stupid laws, fees, and regulations. We don't want or need your revenue with that mindset I assure you. Enough real men and women will come here to enjoy the state. and the Law Enforcement process will not change, except to cut the feds out of the picture.

    WE need more citizens like you who continue to think turning a blind eye to existing laws is a good thing so we dont offend anyone. Things are changing in this country, we refuse to be Europe, if you want a European lifestyle, where they pander to everyone so not to offend them, get on a plane and don't look back

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    re: AZChevy, be very afraid

    Quote Originally Posted by azchevy View Post
    I think it is funny that everyone is all butthurt about this. My fiance is 100% MEXICAN descent 2d generation LEGAL American and neither her nor I, nor her legal immigrant family who do not have citizenship but green cards, are afraid or worried about this law.
    Well then sir, you are making a big mistake. Be very afraid. The folks with the Green Card actually will have it easy. You are right, they are supposed to keep their papers with them. And they have them.

    Your fiance? How is she supposed to demonstrate her status? Under present procedures, what will she now have to carry besides her DL?
    How and when will she be treated differently than you? And should you wed, what about your future kids?

    Do you really think it is a grand idea that she walk around with a difficult to replace birth certificate? Do you want her walking around with a passport? What papers does she have which show status, which are reasonable for her to keep in her possession at all times? Why should she have to carry a passport but you not?

    Think man!

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    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    This is precisely how you make refugees out of citizens. Keep on making fun. In point of fact should TX go this route we would leave. Likely to Iowa or MN. And if this craziness continued to spread we would unfortunately become refugees of one sort or another.

    You see the whole AZ plan is mindless.

    Folks come here and want it both ways. They want to claim they are conservatives and that US citizens have rights; but then they make fun of other citizens and take steps to limit their rights.

    They think other citizens should have to carry papers but they should be exempt because their skin is the right hew. How many illegal Irish do you think your AZ police will be stopping? Or illegal English? Or illegal Russians? Likely, they'll be stopping some native Americans. Guaranteed. It is also guaranteed they will arrest at least some native born Hispanics. How many millions of your state coffers (tax dollars) do you think these victims will have when they win the lottery in court?

    The AZ law is so broad (if I am understanding it) that anyone who isn't very clearly a caucasian native born American might be asked for papers. Papers being more than a DL, proof of status, which most DLs are not.

    Thankfully so far the only time I have needed my passport or my wife hers is when we travel into the US from abroad. I have no intention of putting myself in that position--carrying around a passport --to go stay in your wonderful AZ Biltmore.

    So guys, you lose. You lose revenue I won't be spending in your airport. You lose rental car revenue I won't be spending. You lose hotel revenue and occupancy taxes. You lose restaurant business and you lose sports event attendance.

    Make fun.

    The AZ economy is going down the toilet from this one. It is only a matter of time. Because there are very very many people who are likely to feel the same way on this issue. And some are affluent who just might decide that AZ isn't where they want to retire.
    Since when should a illegal be granted the same rights as a U.S. citizen.? That's where the craziness comes in.

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    re: 21bubba

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Since when should a illegal be granted the same rights as a U.S. citizen.? That's where the craziness comes in.
    That isn't really the issue being discussed. Let's examine the example given by AZChevy.


    I'll quote what he wrote, then continue: "My fiance is 100% MEXICAN descent 2d generation...her legal immigrant family who do not have citizenship but green cards,"

    OK, now try to follow this scenario. The family members with green cards and the young lady who is a native born American citizen of Mexican heritage are all riding in a car. For some reason they have an encounter with the police and the officer, noting the Mexican appearance and perhaps the accent, inquire about status.

    No problem at all for the folks with the green card. They are required to carry the card, they have it, and they present it. The officer then turns to the the 100% Mexican heritage US citizen young lady. "Papers please, let me see your green card."

    "Sir, I don't have a green card. Here's my DL."

    Officer: "This doesn't show status. Do you have a birth certificate? Passport? Something to show your status."

    Young American lady: "No sir, I'm an American, can't you tell I have no accent, I was raised here."

    Officer: "Lots of kids were brought here illegally when they were two and grow up with no accent. What can you show me to prove your status."

    Young Lady, dumbfounded: "Uh, I have nothing on me but my DL."

    Officer: Well, you are going to have to come with me because I think I have a reasonable suspicion that you are here illegally. You look Mexican, you are with other immigrants, and you don't have papers.


    See, this AZ law isn't just a burden on the illegal immigrant. It is a burden on the American Citizen who doesn't look Caucasian. And that is the long and the short of it.

    The controversy isn't about giving illegals rights, it is about preserving the rights of American Citizenship, and of Americans to go about their business unmolested and without the need to carry papers---if their skin hew is wrong.

    See?

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