There are serious problems with the AZ law for anyone who is a citizen of the US of Mexican heritage or who appears to be of Mexican heritage.
There are ways to have made the law work without introducing issues of bias and bigotry, but those paths weren't chosen by the legislature of AZ.
The personal history and background of the bill's chief backers in the AZ legislature make plain why those constitutionally appropriate methods weren't selected.
It is very interesting that major figures in the Republican party are doing their best to distance themselves from the AZ bill. Gov. Perry hasn't said a word of support. The two guys in Florida Crist and Rubio oppose the bill.
Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.
We seldom do pass good legislation in the heat and anger of the moment. And we regret it, then make apologies and sometimes pay
damages (Japanese issue during WWII) years after the fact.
Folks need to take a step back from mixing their emotion driven approval of this bill to analyzing its questionable lawfulness and consequences on citizens of the US and on the accelerating movement toward a "papers please" society which few really want.
Again, the internal passport is a hallmark of totalitarianism. The absence of such is what distinguishes free people from people who live in fear of the authorities. The DL was never intended to be used for the purposes to which it now is being used; whether to demonstrate status or adhere to the Red Lock rules promulgated by FTC, or for air travel. The social security card was never intended to be used to prove either identity or status, and it says so right on the card.
We all need to be very cautious about what we wish for here because the long term impact on our society and ourselves will be grim if we continue down the path towards a "papers please" society.
I support the bill 100% and am glad to say there are several Utah State law maker working on a nearly identical bill for the next congressional year for Utah.
I think MOST, not all illegal immigrants are a drain on a lot more than the economy.
This is already federal law, the feds should be the last ones trying to stop this. Just goes to show you where they really stand.
From the Arizona bill:
First off, I'd like to see all the illegals shipped home.Quote:
20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
That being said, this law is a violation of the fourth amendment specifically because it gives no defenition for "WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS".
From our constitution:
Being hispanic is not probable cause in this country!! (I'm pasty white by the way).Quote:
Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
The way the law is written, law enforcement has no burden of probable cause or reasonable suspicion. All they have to do is look at a person, say "Oh, he's hispanic. Looks illegal to me. Papers please."
This is no different than if he walks up to you and says "Oh, you look shady to me. Empty your pockets please."
This is no different than if a cop knocks on your door and says "Oh this house looks suspicious. I'm coming in."
We need to really watch what rights we willingly give up "for the greater good." Eventually, someone else's "greater good" might involve taking our rights.
"What fewer people have noticed is the phrase "lawful contact," which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."
Lets see papers anyone? I personally have 4, FOUR picture ID's on me right now, AND Registration and PROOF of insurance in my truck. Let's go down the list with the 4 picture ID'S I have for starters.
1. Basic drivers licence. That don't include all the endorsements I had to obtain and pay for to Drive an 18 up to a 24 wheeler and more for Heavy haul and Oversize loads OVER THE ROAD nation wide U.S.A. With Hazardous Materials.
2. I have to have a Picture I.D. to even enter my place of employment now, let alone work there.
3. LEO asks me hey bub you have a permit to CWP that heater? Yes sir here it is, another picture I.D.
4. And of course least of which COSCO!
Point is this I can't leave the house without PAPERS!
Discrimination! Give me a break. If you want to be in this country Legally, you play by the rules or get out!
Wait I'm not done yet! Stop and think how much documentation WE have to produce to reside in this Great Nation to accomplish anything. Proof of just about anything we do or strive for. Pass this and pass that, put up or shut-up and leave. If you screw up and lose your PAPER, or PAPERS guess what you don't get to play anymore, get it? I apologize for the rant, but I feel adament on this issue that has been a political hinge pin on Both Sides of the aisle. Enough! Let er rip!
Just to add, having paid lots of money and spent lots of time to get my wife into the country legally I do not like it when people enter in illegally.
This bill is trying to address a real problem that is faced at the local/state level, but the problem was created at the fedearl level and that is were it will be solved at.
The solution to the problem is simple, but not easy. We can repeal NAFTA, issue more temporay worker permits, increase enforcement and penalties for employeers that knowingly hire illegals, and increase the Border Patrol personnel and presence at the border.
Ok so enlighten me. With due respect for you and your wife how does that work?
You answered my ? as I was typing. Your wife is here legally. I'm talking whats going on with AZ. type immigration, illlegal. Thanks for clarification.
seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses.
This is one of the problems with one state trying to enforce a national problem, I truly hope that AZ makes the fedearl government act