Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

This is a discussion on Arizona Immigration Bill Poll within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by BigStick Is it just me, or does the media only ever show the people talking about the negative side of the bill? ...

View Poll Results: Do you support the Arizona Immigration Bill?

Voters
259. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, illegal immigration is a drain on the economy

    239 92.28%
  • No, This is based on bigotry

    14 5.41%
  • No opinion

    6 2.32%
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Thread: Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

  1. #16
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    Quote Originally Posted by BigStick View Post
    Is it just me, or does the media only ever show the people talking about the negative side of the bill? And most of them are spouting untrue, emotional lies trying to make us think it is racist. I haven't seen or listened to one MSM news report that had anyone supporting the bill.
    Don't hold your breath. Watching the local (Phoenix) news tonight, close to 10 minutes were spent on all the protests, Al Sharpton and Shakira (that well-known civil rights advocate) coming to protest, yada yada yada. Buried among all that non-news rhetoric was a very brief report on a poll that shows that over two-thirds of Arizona residents (note: the ones this law affects) support the new law.
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  3. #17
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    re: gasmitty

    Quote Originally Posted by gasmitty View Post
    . Buried among all that non-news rhetoric was a very brief report on a poll that shows that over two-thirds of Arizona residents (note: the ones this law affects) support the new law.
    Look, over 2/3 of white southerners supported segregation. That didn't make it right. And popular support doesn't make this law constitutional.

    There are serious problems with the AZ law for anyone who is a citizen of the US of Mexican heritage or who appears to be of Mexican heritage.

    There are ways to have made the law work without introducing issues of bias and bigotry, but those paths weren't chosen by the legislature of AZ.

    The personal history and background of the bill's chief backers in the AZ legislature make plain why those constitutionally appropriate methods weren't selected.

    It is very interesting that major figures in the Republican party are doing their best to distance themselves from the AZ bill. Gov. Perry hasn't said a word of support. The two guys in Florida Crist and Rubio oppose the bill.

    Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.

    We seldom do pass good legislation in the heat and anger of the moment. And we regret it, then make apologies and sometimes pay
    damages (Japanese issue during WWII) years after the fact.

    Folks need to take a step back from mixing their emotion driven approval of this bill to analyzing its questionable lawfulness and consequences on citizens of the US and on the accelerating movement toward a "papers please" society which few really want.

    Again, the internal passport is a hallmark of totalitarianism. The absence of such is what distinguishes free people from people who live in fear of the authorities. The DL was never intended to be used for the purposes to which it now is being used; whether to demonstrate status or adhere to the Red Lock rules promulgated by FTC, or for air travel. The social security card was never intended to be used to prove either identity or status, and it says so right on the card.

    We all need to be very cautious about what we wish for here because the long term impact on our society and ourselves will be grim if we continue down the path towards a "papers please" society.

  4. #18
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    I support the bill 100% and am glad to say there are several Utah State law maker working on a nearly identical bill for the next congressional year for Utah.

    I think MOST, not all illegal immigrants are a drain on a lot more than the economy.

    This is already federal law, the feds should be the last ones trying to stop this. Just goes to show you where they really stand.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
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  5. #19
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    From the Arizona bill:
    20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
    First off, I'd like to see all the illegals shipped home.
    That being said, this law is a violation of the fourth amendment specifically because it gives no defenition for "WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS".

    From our constitution:
    Amendment 4 - Search and Seizure. Ratified 12/15/1791.
    The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no Warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by Oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.
    Being hispanic is not probable cause in this country!! (I'm pasty white by the way).
    The way the law is written, law enforcement has no burden of probable cause or reasonable suspicion. All they have to do is look at a person, say "Oh, he's hispanic. Looks illegal to me. Papers please."

    This is no different than if he walks up to you and says "Oh, you look shady to me. Empty your pockets please."

    This is no different than if a cop knocks on your door and says "Oh this house looks suspicious. I'm coming in."

    We need to really watch what rights we willingly give up "for the greater good." Eventually, someone else's "greater good" might involve taking our rights.
    Last edited by MSteve; April 29th, 2010 at 11:32 AM. Reason: Formatting issue
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  6. #20
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    Washington Examiner:
    "What fewer people have noticed is the phrase "lawful contact," which defines what must be going on before police even think about checking immigration status. "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."

    OMO
    IANAL

    bosco

  7. #21
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    Feel free to start your own poll and I will gladly participate.
    Me too.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  8. #22
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Lets see papers anyone? I personally have 4, FOUR picture ID's on me right now, AND Registration and PROOF of insurance in my truck. Let's go down the list with the 4 picture ID'S I have for starters.

    1. Basic drivers licence. That don't include all the endorsements I had to obtain and pay for to Drive an 18 up to a 24 wheeler and more for Heavy haul and Oversize loads OVER THE ROAD nation wide U.S.A. With Hazardous Materials.

    2. I have to have a Picture I.D. to even enter my place of employment now, let alone work there.

    3. LEO asks me hey bub you have a permit to CWP that heater? Yes sir here it is, another picture I.D.

    4. And of course least of which COSCO!

    Point is this I can't leave the house without PAPERS!

    Discrimination! Give me a break. If you want to be in this country Legally, you play by the rules or get out!
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  9. #23
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Wait I'm not done yet! Stop and think how much documentation WE have to produce to reside in this Great Nation to accomplish anything. Proof of just about anything we do or strive for. Pass this and pass that, put up or shut-up and leave. If you screw up and lose your PAPER, or PAPERS guess what you don't get to play anymore, get it? I apologize for the rant, but I feel adament on this issue that has been a political hinge pin on Both Sides of the aisle. Enough! Let er rip!
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  10. #24
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    Quote Originally Posted by bsnow View Post
    Lets see papers anyone? I personally have 4, FOUR picture ID's on me right now, AND Registration and PROOF of insurance in my truck. Let's go down the list with the 4 picture ID'S I have for starters.

    1. Basic drivers licence. That don't include all the endorsements I had to obtain and pay for to Drive an 18 up to a 24 wheeler and more for Heavy haul and Oversize loads OVER THE ROAD nation wide U.S.A. With Hazardous Materials.

    2. I have to have a Picture I.D. to even enter my place of employment now, let alone work there.

    3. LEO asks me hey bub you have a permit to CWP that heater? Yes sir here it is, another picture I.D.

    4. And of course least of which COSCO!

    Point is this I can't leave the house without PAPERS!

    Discrimination! Give me a break. If you want to be in this country Legally, you play by the rules or get out!
    But None of those papers prove your immiragtion status. My wife is not a US Citizen and she has all of the documents that you have except for the Costco card
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  11. #25
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    Just to add, having paid lots of money and spent lots of time to get my wife into the country legally I do not like it when people enter in illegally.

    This bill is trying to address a real problem that is faced at the local/state level, but the problem was created at the fedearl level and that is were it will be solved at.

    The solution to the problem is simple, but not easy. We can repeal NAFTA, issue more temporay worker permits, increase enforcement and penalties for employeers that knowingly hire illegals, and increase the Border Patrol personnel and presence at the border.
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  12. #26
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    Ok so enlighten me. With due respect for you and your wife how does that work?
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  13. #27
    VIP Member Array bsnow's Avatar
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    You answered my ? as I was typing. Your wife is here legally. I'm talking whats going on with AZ. type immigration, illlegal. Thanks for clarification.
    Blessed be the LORD my strength which teacheth my hands to war, and my fingers to fight. PSALM 144:1

    I CLING to my guns and my Bible.

  14. #28
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    seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses.

    http://www.stateline.org/live/detail...ntentId=234828

    This is one of the problems with one state trying to enforce a national problem, I truly hope that AZ makes the fedearl government act
    Last edited by pgrass101; April 29th, 2010 at 01:21 PM. Reason: Posted Updated infromation
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  15. #29
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Look, over 2/3 of white southerners supported segregation. That didn't make it right. And popular support doesn't make this law constitutional.
    Oh come on, almost 70% of the STATE supports it. If only "white southerners" make up the state, there wouldn't be a problem would there?? There are many legal immigrants who support it too...

  16. #30
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    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses.
    Also a HUGE part of the problem. You should only have state ID if you are legal, end of story. Issuing ID is a foot in the door technique.

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