Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

This is a discussion on Arizona Immigration Bill Poll within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; I am sure any officer will think carefully before acting on this new law, knowing that everyone from the ACLU to Al Sharpton will be ...

View Poll Results: Do you support the Arizona Immigration Bill?

Voters
259. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, illegal immigration is a drain on the economy

    239 92.28%
  • No, This is based on bigotry

    14 5.41%
  • No opinion

    6 2.32%
Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast
Results 31 to 45 of 103

Thread: Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

  1. #31
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    upstate new york
    Posts
    1,176
    I am sure any officer will think carefully before acting on this new law, knowing that everyone from the ACLU to Al Sharpton will be waiting in the wings to sue his butt off.

    Further explanation from the Washington Examiner:


    For example: "Arizona already has a state law on human smuggling," says Kobach. "An officer stops a group of people in a car that is speeding. The car is overloaded. Nobody had identification. The driver acts evasively. They are on a known smuggling corridor." That is a not uncommon occurrence in Arizona, and any officer would reasonably suspect that the people in the car were illegal. Under the new law, the officer would get in touch with U.S. Immigration and Customs Enforcement to check on their status.

    But what if the driver of the car had shown the officer his driver's license? The law clearly says that if someone produces a valid Arizona driver's license, or other state-issued identification, they are presumed to be here legally. There's no reasonable suspicion.

    Is having to produce a driver's license too burdensome? These days, natural-born U.S. citizens, and everybody else, too, are required to show a driver's license to get on an airplane, to check into a hotel, even to purchase some over-the-counter allergy medicines. If it's a burden, it's a burden on everyone.

    Still, critics worry the law would force some people to carry their papers, just like in an old movie. The fact is, since the 1940s, federal law has required non-citizens in this country to carry, on their person, the documentation proving they are here legally -- green card, work visa, etc. That hasn't changed.


    bosco

  2. Remove Ads

  3. #32
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    east TN
    Posts
    2,341
    I already need to show my drivers license and registration and proof of insurance when i get pulled over. how is this any different?
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  4. #33
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    414
    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    I already need to show my drivers license and registration and proof of insurance when i get pulled over. how is this any different?
    Unless I am misreading something...
    Every interpretation of this new law I have found says that law enforcement already had the right to ask for proof of citizenship when checking someone out for another offense.
    This new law was designed to allow them to check citizenship status of some one that they would not otherwise have a reason to interact with, simply because the officer thinks the person might be illegal. That means, they have no probable cause or reasonable suspicion...other than the person being hispanic. That's profiling and harrassment.

    Someone please point me to a good source if I am misreading it. I'm open to other interpretations, but so far it seems unconstitutional to me.
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  5. #34
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,125
    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    I already need to show my drivers license and registration and proof of insurance when i get pulled over. how is this any different?
    A Driver's License is not proof of citzenship. 7 states issue DL's to non documented aliens
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

  6. #35
    Member Array J400Cali's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2010
    Location
    California
    Posts
    50
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Look, over 2/3 of white southerners supported segregation. That didn't make it right. And popular support doesn't make this law constitutional.

    There are serious problems with the AZ law for anyone who is a citizen of the US of Mexican heritage or who appears to be of Mexican heritage.

    There are ways to have made the law work without introducing issues of bias and bigotry, but those paths weren't chosen by the legislature of AZ.

    The personal history and background of the bill's chief backers in the AZ legislature make plain why those constitutionally appropriate methods weren't selected.

    It is very interesting that major figures in the Republican party are doing their best to distance themselves from the AZ bill. Gov. Perry hasn't said a word of support. The two guys in Florida Crist and Rubio oppose the bill.

    Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.

    We seldom do pass good legislation in the heat and anger of the moment. And we regret it, then make apologies and sometimes pay
    damages (Japanese issue during WWII) years after the fact.

    Folks need to take a step back from mixing their emotion driven approval of this bill to analyzing its questionable lawfulness and consequences on citizens of the US and on the accelerating movement toward a "papers please" society which few really want.

    Again, the internal passport is a hallmark of totalitarianism. The absence of such is what distinguishes free people from people who live in fear of the authorities. The DL was never intended to be used for the purposes to which it now is being used; whether to demonstrate status or adhere to the Red Lock rules promulgated by FTC, or for air travel. The social security card was never intended to be used to prove either identity or status, and it says so right on the card.

    We all need to be very cautious about what we wish for here because the long term impact on our society and ourselves will be grim if we continue down the path towards a "papers please" society.


    Very well said

  7. #36
    VIP Member Array friesepferd's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2007
    Location
    east TN
    Posts
    2,341
    ok. i think thats where people have issue with this bill, and at least from what i read, i believe you to be incorrect.
    I read this as (and all summaries of the bill I have read so far agree), that a LEO may ask for some kind of proof during a lawful stop / encounter. Ei, a LEO may not stop someone walking down the street b/c they look mexican. this is more of a traffic stop kind of situation.
    B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY
    21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS
    22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS
    23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,
    24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE
    25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT
    26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).
    Also from everything I read, a DL works fine, you dont need birth certificate or anything like that. Correct me if you see somewhere in the bill that a DL would not be sufficient

    Not that wiki is any source. but from there:
    A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance
    Wo die Notwehr aufhört, fängt der Mord an
    (Murder begins where self-defense ends)
    Georg Büchner

  8. #37
    Senior Member Array boscobeans's Avatar
    Join Date
    Jul 2008
    Location
    upstate new york
    Posts
    1,176
    This is from the final copy of the actual bill:

    Sec. 2. Title 11, chapter 7, Arizona Revised Statutes, is amended by
    12 adding article 8, to read:
    13 ARTICLE 8. ENFORCEMENT OF IMMIGRATION LAWS
    14 11-1051. Cooperation and assistance in enforcement of
    15 immigration laws; indemnification
    16 A. NO OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR
    17 OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY LIMIT OR RESTRICT THE
    18 ENFORCEMENT OF FEDERAL IMMIGRATION LAWS TO LESS THAN THE FULL EXTENT
    19 PERMITTED BY FEDERAL LAW.
    20 B. FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
    21 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR A LAW
    22 ENFORCEMENT AGENCY OF A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF
    23 THIS STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO
    24 IS UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE
    25 MADE, WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON,
    26 EXCEPT IF THE DETERMINATION MAY HINDER OR OBSTRUCT AN INVESTIGATION. ANY
    27 PERSON WHO IS ARRESTED SHALL HAVE THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS DETERMINED
    28 BEFORE THE PERSON IS RELEASED. THE PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE
    29 VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION
    30 1373(c). A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY,
    31 CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS STATE MAY NOT SOLELY
    32 CONSIDER RACE, COLOR OR NATIONAL ORIGIN IN IMPLEMENTING THE REQUIREMENTS OF
    33 THIS SUBSECTION EXCEPT TO THE EXTENT PERMITTED BY THE UNITED STATES OR
    34 ARIZONA CONSTITUTION. A PERSON IS PRESUMED TO NOT BE AN ALIEN WHO IS
    35 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES IF THE PERSON PROVIDES TO THE LAW
    36 ENFORCEMENT OFFICER OR AGENCY ANY OF THE FOLLOWING:
    37 1. A VALID ARIZONA DRIVER LICENSE.
    38 2. A VALID ARIZONA NONOPERATING IDENTIFICATION LICENSE.
    39 3. A VALID TRIBAL ENROLLMENT CARD OR OTHER FORM OF TRIBAL
    40 IDENTIFICATION.
    41 4. IF THE ENTITY REQUIRES PROOF OF LEGAL PRESENCE IN THE UNITED STATES
    42 BEFORE ISSUANCE, ANY VALID UNITED STATES FEDERAL, STATE OR LOCAL GOVERNMENT
    43 ISSUED IDENTIFICATION.


    NOTE LINE 20b and lines 37---43

    bosco

  9. #38
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,125
    Quote Originally Posted by friesepferd View Post
    ok. i think thats where people have issue with this bill, and at least from what i read, i believe you to be incorrect.
    I read this as (and all summaries of the bill I have read so far agree), that a LEO may ask for some kind of proof during a lawful stop / encounter. Ei, a LEO may not stop someone walking down the street b/c they look mexican. this is more of a traffic stop kind of situation.


    Also from everything I read, a DL works fine, you dont need birth certificate or anything like that. Correct me if you see somewhere in the bill that a DL would not be sufficient

    Not that wiki is any source. but from there:
    A person is "presumed to not be an alien who is unlawfully present in the United States" if he or she presents any of the following four forms of identification: (a) a valid Arizona driver license; (b) a valid Arizona nonoperating identification license; (c) a valid tribal enrollment card or other tribal identification; or (d) any valid federal, state, or local government-issued identification, if the issuer requires proof of legal presence in the United States as a condition of issuance
    So if you are from New Mexico and go to AZ then you better bring your passport or birth certificate
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

  10. #39
    Member Array MSteve's Avatar
    Join Date
    Apr 2010
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    414
    Well...
    The sticking point seems to be that interpretation. Perhaps what the bill needs is an amendmant more clearly defining what constitutes "any lawful contact." That, or they need to publish the language of whatever documents are being given to LEOs on how to enforce this.
    Unfortunately, I think like most laws this one is being written intentionally vague where the burden of proof will be left on the victim (e.g. the legal resident who get herassed by LEO who don't understand or don't care what the "intent" of the law is).
    AlabamaConstitution of 1819: That every citizen has a right to bear arms in defence of himself and the state.
    The world doesn't owe you anything. It was here first.-Mark Twain
    "Life's tough. It's tougher if you're stupid."-John Wayne
    Sig P228; Micro Desert Eagle; S&W M&P Compact .357 sig

  11. #40
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    seven states – Hawaii, Maine, Michigan, New Mexico, Oregon, Utah and Washington – allow undocumented immigrants to get driver’s licenses.

    Tighter license rules hit illegal immigrants

    This is one of the problems with one state trying to enforce a national problem, I truly hope that AZ makes the fedearl government act
    This is NOT true.

    Utah issues a Driver Privilege Card to illegal aliens. I personally hate that they do, but they do. It is NOT a Driver License, a DL can be used as ID, a DPC CAN NOT. It gives an illegal immigrant the ability to drive legally in this state, but does not count as a State issued ID.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  12. #41
    Senior Moderator
    Array pgrass101's Avatar
    Join Date
    Sep 2006
    Location
    Alabama
    Posts
    13,125
    Quote Originally Posted by sigmanluke View Post
    This is NOT true.

    Utah issues a Driver Privilege Card to illegal aliens. I personally hate that they do, but they do. It is NOT a Driver License, a DL can be used as ID, a DPC CAN NOT. It gives an illegal immigrant the ability to drive legally in this state, but does not count as a State issued ID.
    Thanks Sigmanluke for clarifying

    Can any other residents of the states listed above verify that the information in the link I posted is correct?
    Sometimes I wonder who the old man in the mirror is....

    Lord, Grant me a good sword and no need to use it.

  13. #42
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    I agree with others that the best way to help deter illegal immigration is to give LARGE penalties and fines to the employers who hire them. No more jobs, much less illegal immigration.
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

  14. #43
    Distinguished Member
    Array phreddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Spartanburg, SC
    Posts
    1,952
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.

    .
    Lindsey Graham supports amnesty so his opinion on this law goes nowhere for me, and he is one of my state senators.

  15. #44
    Distinguished Member
    Array phreddy's Avatar
    Join Date
    Mar 2009
    Location
    Spartanburg, SC
    Posts
    1,952
    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    But None of those papers prove your immiragtion status. My wife is not a US Citizen and she has all of the documents that you have except for the Costco card
    But she is here legally, right? You do not have to prove you are a citizen, just that you are here legally. If she is here legally, she would have signed documents where she agreed to carry proof of here status with her.

  16. #45
    VIP Member
    Array sigmanluke's Avatar
    Join Date
    Feb 2009
    Location
    Utah
    Posts
    3,209
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.
    Why should one politician's opinion of a bill give me reason to opose it?
    "The tree of liberty must be refreshed from time to time with the blood of patriots and tyrants."
    Thomas Jefferson

Page 3 of 7 FirstFirst 1234567 LastLast

Links

Posting Permissions

  • You may not post new threads
  • You may not post replies
  • You may not post attachments
  • You may not edit your posts
  •  

Similar Threads

  1. immigration bill
    By boatail in forum Off Topic & Humor Discussion
    Replies: 341
    Last Post: May 8th, 2010, 02:57 PM
  2. NRA Alert- Arizona Arizona Senator Attempting to Water Down Important Pro-Gun Bill!
    By mi2az in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 2
    Last Post: June 24th, 2009, 07:49 PM
  3. Arizona Bill HB2474 (heard from Steve Montenegro Member, Arizona House of Representa
    By mi2az in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 0
    Last Post: May 12th, 2009, 05:05 PM
  4. New Gun Control/Immigration Bill
    By stalker_us2000 in forum The Second Amendment & Gun Legislation Discussion
    Replies: 1
    Last Post: May 23rd, 2007, 11:58 PM

Search tags for this page

shakira lack of knowledge of the constitution

Click on a term to search for related topics.