Arizona Immigration Bill Poll - Page 5

Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

This is a discussion on Arizona Immigration Bill Poll within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by pgrass101 A Driver's License is not proof of citzenship. 7 states issue DL's to non documented aliens Actually, you do not need ...

View Poll Results: Do you support the Arizona Immigration Bill?

Voters
259. You may not vote on this poll
  • Yes, illegal immigration is a drain on the economy

    239 92.28%
  • No, This is based on bigotry

    14 5.41%
  • No opinion

    6 2.32%
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Thread: Arizona Immigration Bill Poll

  1. #61
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    DL is not proof of citizenship continued

    Quote Originally Posted by pgrass101 View Post
    A Driver's License is not proof of citzenship. 7 states issue DL's to non documented aliens
    Actually, you do not need proof of citizenship to get a DL even in the other 43 states.

    DLs are issued to visitors. They are issued to people here on temporary work visas; to people here on student visas; to H1B visa holders, and others here on temporary status visas. Do you guys think the foreign students who go to school here don't get DLs? Do you think all those H1B work visa folks don't get DLs?

    One of many problems with the AZ law is that it is attempting to
    use the DLs for something they are not designed to be used for.

    I assure you, right in my own town of College Station where we have a large student population, and very many are foreign students, and some even have their families here-- these non-citizens get DLs.

    So a Texas DL won't be proof of citizenship (or even status) at all. No more than the New Mexico DL will be.

    The DL is meaningless as an indicator of status.

    What this means as a practical matter is that LEOs are going to have to look toward other documents than the DL to verify status.

    Well, uh, what might those other documents be? The only one that actually proves status is a passport.

    Are all you proponents of this bill willing to get passports and walk around with them? And what of US Citizens who have had run ins with the law and their passports are temporarily held till after the trial?
    Should they face arrest again for not having their passport which was just seized as part of the bond hearing?

    You'll answer a facile yes to my first question if you are caucasian, but you'll have another answer if your skin hew is different. And there in lies the problem with this legislation. It can not be enforced without profiling UNLESS everyone is required to carry a passport and show it with each official encounter with the police. Then at least, the law can be applied fairly.

    If you proponents of this law are willing to go there, I am too. But keep in mind, this is the path to true oppression, not the mickey mouse stuff of an officer looking at you because you OCd in dirty clothes, a T shirt with an off color logo, a tattoo and a beard.


  2. #62
    Senior Member Array Pure Kustom's Avatar
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    what bill? if hopyard hates it, It must be a GREAT Bill. I'm all in!!!!!

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Actually, you do not need proof of citizenship to get a DL even in the other 43 states.

    DLs are issued to visitors. They are issued to people here on temporary work visas; to people here on student visas; to H1B visa holders, and others here on temporary status visas. Do you guys think the foreign students who go to school here don't get DLs? Do you think all those H1B work visa folks don't get DLs?

    One of many problems with the AZ law is that it is attempting to
    use the DLs for something they are not designed to be used for.

    I assure you, right in my own town of College Station where we have a large student population, and very many are foreign students, and some even have their families here-- these non-citizens get DLs.

    So a Texas DL won't be proof of citizenship (or even status) at all. No more than the New Mexico DL will be.

    The DL is meaningless as an indicator of status.

    What this means as a practical matter is that LEOs are going to have to look toward other documents than the DL to verify status.

    Well, uh, what might those other documents be? The only one that actually proves status is a passport.

    Are all you proponents of this bill willing to get passports and walk around with them? And what of US Citizens who have had run ins with the law and their passports are temporarily held till after the trial?
    Should they face arrest again for not having their passport which was just seized as part of the bond hearing?

    You'll answer a facile yes to my first question if you are caucasian, but you'll have another answer if your skin hew is different. And there in lies the problem with this legislation. It can not be enforced without profiling UNLESS everyone is required to carry a passport and show it with each official encounter with the police. Then at least, the law can be applied fairly.

    If you proponents of this law are willing to go there, I am too. But keep in mind, this is the path to true oppression, not the mickey mouse stuff of an officer looking at you because you OCd in dirty clothes, a T shirt with an off color logo, a tattoo and a beard.
    Actually herein Florida you need your Birth Certificate now to renew your license that will prove who and where you are from.

  4. #64
    Member Array cyberdogg's Avatar
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    I back Arizona law 100%, even with further amendment added to make it even stricter.

    However, as a strict Constitutionalist, I have a misgiving about the law abrogating the Fourth Amendment and its equal in the state constitution, if the variation exists. There may be a court challenge concerning this right, if the "illegal immigrant" advocates get their way.

    Some states and major cities "abrogate" Second Amendment when it concerns RKBA, particularly concealed carry for self-defense, as in Hawaii, New York/NYC, California/San Francisco/Los Angeles, New Jersey, Massachusetts, Maryland, and Illinois. Wisconsin is minor while Iowa will finally jettison its old, outdated design favoring sheriff's discretion next year.

    Utah is considering mirroring Arizona law, which imitates 1986 immigration reform and control federal law. I say to Utah, go for it.

  5. #65
    Member Array UnklFungus's Avatar
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    Dims are trying to use it to get votes. I wonder from whom? Rhetorical question!

    Democrats Tread Gingerly on Immigration - WSJ.com
    “The Constitution is not an instrument for the government to restrain the people, it is an instrument for the people to restrain the government.”

    Patrick Henry
    Quote Originally Posted by UnklFungus
    If it is ok to disarm legal citizens to reduce crime, then doesn't it stand to disband the military to prevent war?

  6. #66
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Bark'n View Post
    A Texas State Representative was on Fox today. Texas will be introducing a similar bill in the Jan/11 legislative session.


    Really? Woo Hoo!

  7. #67
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    Quote Originally Posted by cyberdogg View Post
    However, as a strict Constitutionalist, I have a misgiving about the law abrogating the Fourth Amendment and its equal in the state constitution, if the variation exists. There may be a court challenge concerning this right, if the "illegal immigrant" advocates get their way.
    First off, I've taken the time to read the actual law.
    I personally think it is too vague.
    It might very well be good law, poorly written. God knows, I'd like to see all the illegals shipped home. But, my concern with this law is that it will lead to unnecessary harrassment of U.S. citizens who happen to be hispanic. Before it spreads to other states, it'd be nice to see it challenged in the US Supreme Court, if for no other reason than to make sure future version, in and out of Arizona, are written in a way that gets after the illegal immigration problem without having to violate the constitutional rights of U.S. citizens to do it.
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  8. #68
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    re: ErnieNWillis Gov Perry said NO!

    Quote Originally Posted by ErnieNWillis View Post
    Really? Woo Hoo!
    Hate to tell you this, but I just heard on the news as I was having coffee this morning that Perry said he wasn't interested.

  9. #69
    Distinguished Member Array ErnieNWillis's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Hate to tell you this, but I just heard on the news as I was having coffee this morning that Perry said he wasn't interested.

    I just saw that myself. It's gonna take more than busting a cap in a coyote to make up for this serious lapse in judgement.

  10. #70
    Senior Member Array older gunner's Avatar
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    I voted in favor of the law. I wish I could let the folks in Az know of my support and tell them not to worry about the out-of-staters who are bellyaching. They have no idea what's going on down there.
    Wisdom of the Older Gunner:
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  11. #71
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    While Shakera sits comfortably in her home in the Bahamas...

    FOXNews.com - Ariz. Deputy Shot; Illegal Immigrants Suspected
    Nothing says more about how you feel, than a lead flower.

  12. #72
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    I'm not saying it's perfect, just like the Health Care Law is not perfect, but you have got to start somewhere and this is somewhere. Now it might need to be tweaked here and there, ok fine, tweak it, but it's a law and it's a good one and needed to be done pure and simple.
    "I dislike death, however, there are some things I dislike more than death. Therefore, there are times when I will not avoid danger" Mencius"

  13. #73
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    It is very interesting that major figures in the Republican party are doing their best to distance themselves from the AZ bill. Gov. Perry hasn't said a word of support. The two guys in Florida Crist and Rubio oppose the bill.

    Lindsay Graham opposes the bill and calls it unconstitutional. This stuff should be telling you all that it isn't good sound legislation.
    Disagree. What "this stuff" tells me is they are politicians first and foremost and they don't want to alienate the large (and growing) Hispanic base of their constituency.
    "Society never advances. It recedes as fast on one side as it gains on the other. It undergoes continual change; but this change is not [an improvement]. For everything that is given, something is taken."
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  14. #74
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    Well I think we should hear what a true American has to say about this whole immigration issue.

    So let's ask Geronimo
    A real man loves his wife, and places his family as the most important thing in life. Nothing has brought me more peace and content in life than simply being a good husband and father.

  15. #75
    VIP Member Array SatCong's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hardcorp View Post
    While Shakera sits comfortably in her home in the Bahamas...

    FOXNews.com - Ariz. Deputy Shot; Illegal Immigrants Suspected
    That's making us happy.
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