So I had A Talk With Some Arrogant Census Bureau Guy..

[Hopyard]

Actually, it was the 16th Amendment of 1913

Still part of our constitution. The amendments are as valid as the original un-altered text.

that exempted income taxes from several Constitutional hurdles including apportioning among the states on the basis of population. [sarcasm on] It probably didn't get substantial oppossition because it was, after all, only 1% on annual income over $5000 - not something the common man had to budget for. [sarcasm off]

We could of course argue various policy issues related to taxation forever, but as pointed out, Uncle has the lawful right to collect taxes. We have the right to try to elect folks who will spend our money wisely and not raise taxes. It never works out all that well, but....uh, maybe that should tell us a lot about the real cost of running a country.

Grumbling and defiance are as American as apple pie.

Absolutely. But there is defiance, and there is "defiance."

Henry Ford refused to comply with the depression-era National Recovery Act mandate that he raise prices.

Not familiar with this. So what happened to him? Was his company fined or punished in some manner? Was the law not upheld in the courts? Why did anyone want him to raise prices? Are you confusing this with refusing to pay minimum wage? Please send me a private message about this. I'm interested in learning more but the topic is off topic here.

However, refusal to answer a census and talk of bowing to queens doesn't merit much respect.

No, it doesn't merit much respect because not only is it unlawful, it is rather mickey mouse as an act of defiance. And though I see many "Queens" every day, they-- as Elizabeth herself-- have no more power to do anything about anything than I do. Correction, we all have 1/ 300 millionth of the power.

Maybe you are just young and will avail yourself of sterner stuff.

Not sure if that was directed at me or someone else. At nearly 68 I'm well old enough to have had plenty of time to avail myself of sterner stuff. Nowadays I prefer to just watch the world pass by.

I once read what was supposedly an "old Indian" proverb. I've no idea if the origin of the proverb is accurately attributed, but I like the saying anyway.

"Sit quietly on the bank of the river. Sooner or later you will watch the bodies of your enemies float by."

No stern stuff needed. Just patience.

And this one too taught me in a moment of high anxiety and frustration: " All problems go away." At my age I know all problems are going to go away a little faster than I would like.

[DefensiveCarry.com]

[ctsketch]

Born in Hawaii? . . . DOES NOT MATTER! Because Obama was, "at birth", a British citizen, it is completely irrelevant whether Obama was born in Hawaii or abroad.

According to this logic, any country can dictate the birth status of anyone born in America simply by changing their own laws...its madness. born in America legally is natural born, period. What if a country in Africa suddenly decides to have a retroactive law that says anyone born to parents are of this countries ancestry shall be citizens of this country :-S... do I suddenly stop being a natural born American due to another counties laws? Despite me being born in the US legally under US law?

[ctsketch]

You are only constitutionally required to answer the "how many people in this household" question. Anything else is completely optional.

Wrong

[OPFOR]

The census is pointless in todays' society.

This is EXACTLY the front banner headline of every anti-2nd amendment group in existence - change the word "census" to the phrase "need for citizens to have guns" and you have just quoted every piece of Brady Bunch literature in existence. Exactly, word for word, ditto, the same, 100% equal, etc. If you can't see THAT, I don't know what to tell you. Frankly, I’m stunned by the level of ignorance displayed on this subject.

I don't know why I bother arguing with Obama zombies, either.

Is this directed at me? I neither voted for President Obama nor do I agree with many (most) of his policies. I have no idea whatsoever where this jibe came from...

If you can't respect my opinion, why should I bother with yours?

Because your "opinion" is illegal, and contrary to your responsibilities and duties as a citizen.

On a personal note, I've spent nearly three years in combat as it was my duty as a citizen. You can't spend 5 minutes answering legal questions mandated by the Constitution? You seem fairly free with your criticisms of the country, the government, and the Constitution – what have you done to better them?

[OPFOR]

You are only constitutionally required to answer the "how many people in this household" question. Anything else is completely optional.

Double wrong, and a major F in reading comprehension. "...in such a manner as they (Congress) shall by Law direct." This is pretty simple English, and states clearly that they can legally ask anything they want. Of course, you elect that Congress, so you have ultimate say over what they direct...

On another note, if you are upset about some of the ways in which our tax dollars are spent, those of you who refuse to mail in the form have created the need for 1.4 MILLION additional tax-payer funded jobs. Doesn't seem very fiscally responsible to me...

[BurgDog]

"...in such a manner as they (Congress) shall by Law direct." seems to be more directed to the mechanisms to get the required count of people. Additional questions seem to be beyond the powers granted. I got the short form and don't care enough to exhibit some act of civil disobedience so answered all the questions.

[OPFOR]

As has been noted (numerous times), the first census law of 1790 outlined number of things to be "enumerated" outside of a simple head count. It has been on the books for 220 years with no serious legal challenge. If it were indeed only about the "mechanisms," you'd think we'd have figured that out by now...

[Hopyard]

"...in such a manner as they (Congress) shall by Law direct." seems to be more directed to the mechanisms to get the required count of people. Additional questions seem to be beyond the powers granted. I got the short form and don't care enough to exhibit some act of civil disobedience so answered all the questions.

Look, Congress may pass a wide variety of laws on a wide variety of subjects. Just because the specific phrase in our constitution refers to enumeration, does not mean Congress doesn't have the authority to add questions. It also doesn't mean that Congress can't have various statistical samples taken during the intervening years between the decennial census.

And if you think Congress lacks that authority, then tell how come it is that over 220 years of our history the Federal Courts have NOT limited the scope of the enabling law.

Our constitution doesn't say Congress must built interstate highways, fly men in space, or help Haiti after an earthquake. It doesn't need to.

Similarly, our constitution doesn't specifically say that Uncle should or should not assist with the Gulf oil disaster. Or that Uncle must have FEMA, or FDA, or NIH. The absence of a specific mandate doesn't mean Uncle can't act.

[pgrass101]

Everything that could be said about the census has been said atleast 3 times in this thread.

I am closing it, if you want it reopened PM a mod (but not me) and if we get enough requests we will reopen it.