So I had A Talk With Some Arrogant Census Bureau Guy.. - Page 3

So I had A Talk With Some Arrogant Census Bureau Guy..

This is a discussion on So I had A Talk With Some Arrogant Census Bureau Guy.. within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by albundy I enjoy dodging the census. Yup. For heavens sake. Ten quick questions. Big deal. Do what you are supposed to (mail ...

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  1. #31
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    +1 albundy: some of the comment here are -30

    Quote Originally Posted by albundy View Post
    I enjoy dodging the census.
    Yup. For heavens sake. Ten quick questions. Big deal.

    Do what you are supposed to (mail back the form) and no one comes to the door. They come to the door, thank them for doing the job and answer the dang questions. They ask about your neighbor, if you can help out, help out. IF you don't know the answers, be truthful.

    We have so many here who get themselves in a tizzy about perceived unconstitutional intrusions. Well, taking the census is fully constitutional and fully lawful. Moreover, this year's form is almost nothing compared to what has been done in the past. Piece of cake. Nothing at all to be worked up about.

    We all live in one country; how about acting/talking like citizens of that country instead of fear filled --well, paranoiacs.


  2. #32
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    re: DaveH

    Quote Originally Posted by DaveH View Post

    IMHO, the census should not be about every detail of my home, e.g., from number of bathrooms to how I heat it.

    Ditto, no need to know all the personal information about each individual.
    Maybe, but it doesn't really matter because "we are law abiding people" and so since the law requires us to fill these things out, that is what we should be doing.

    One thing is very very clear about the census. The question of the right of Uncle to inquire about things beyond mere enumeration---whether we individually like answering or not----is settled. Its the law.

    We can grumble all we like, but as with paying taxes, serving on juries, signing up with Selective Service, and lots lots more, we have an obligation of citizenship to be partners with our government and not obstructionists.

  3. #33
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    I really think everyone is missing out on the potential fun you can have with this: Take this scenario

    Census Worker: How many people reside here?

    pgrass101: On this plane?

    Census worke: Excuse me?

    pgrass101: Well many beings inhabit this dwelling and many more pass through on their way to other planes, We help the ones we can

    Census worker: I mean living people.

    pgrass101: Well they are all living in some form, and what defines a people?
    You see I could have a lot of fun having a census worker in for tea
    “You can sway a thousand men by appealing to their prejudices quicker than you can convince one man by logic.”

    ― Robert A. Heinlein,

  4. #34
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    Are we really all that paranoid or do you just have your head in the sand?
    You're just that paranoid.

    Do you think that census workers, as a whole, have a higher level of criminal intent towards you and yours than the population as a whole?

    Do you think that mailing in a form that is fully authorized (and REQUIRED) by the Constitution is some infringement or intrusion? If you don't want to answer the optional questions, don't. Mail the form in with the required answers, and be done with the whole episode for TEN MORE YEARS.

    I swear, I don't understand the hostility towards the process, and the blanket hostility towards the workers (who, in all likelihood, you wouldn't have had to deal with at all, had you performed your Constitutionally mandated duty). Sometimes it just seems like meanness for the sake of being mean...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  5. #35
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    Nope, I'm not mean. I am a outside sales rep and I am very friendly. I am also very particular with people that come to my home. Being that I have a very good friend that is a regional manager for the census and have heard the horror stories. There have been several assaults, and rapes already. I do t believe all of these workers are bad. But I have seen that quite a few of the workers in my area are questionable at best.

    I did fill out my document and I did send it back so that I didn't have someone come to my home uninvited. If you believe that all of these people have had back ground checks before they are in the field you are sorely wrong. I love my wife and my child, it's my job to protect them. My friend has had to pair several workers up because he felt uncomfortable with them. He thought they might behave better if they worked togather...... Great logic

  6. #36
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    Quote Originally Posted by Back 40 View Post
    Being that I have a very good friend that is a regional manager for the census and have heard the horror stories. There have been several assaults, and rapes already. I do t believe all of these workers are bad. But I have seen that quite a few of the workers in my area are questionable at best.
    I have no doubt that some are bad. So are some cops, doctors, soldiers, and outside sales reps... My point is that open hostility both to the process and to any random worker is unwarranted - there is no indication that census workers harbor any more ill intent towards "us" than the population at large. The same care should be taken when dealing with them as should be taken with any one - and that hardly involves "firing off a 40 round clip" if and when they approach....
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  7. #37
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    I swear, I don't understand the hostility towards the process, and the blanket hostility towards the workers (who, in all likelihood, you wouldn't have had to deal with at all, had you performed your Constitutionally mandated duty). Sometimes it just seems like meanness for the sake of being mean...
    I'm a very private person. Some woman drives onto my property back in January with a GPS, I drove her off with dogs. Somebody comes to my door (no mailing address) and hangs nosy forms on my door, I toss them in the barrel. Some guy comes back and wants to ask questions, I ask him the same questions right back. He didn't answer mine, but I'm supposed to answer his? None of his ... business.

    Constitutionally mandated duty? First, show me in the constitution where I've got a duty to do a thing. Then, skip to the bottom and show me the spot where I signed the thing. Then go to the library and find a copy of the works of Lysander Spooner, because you really need to read that book. I Have No Duty.

    And I really, really hate arrogant government workers, or any other kind, temporary or not. Endit.

    Edited To Add: And if somebody came to me and started asking nosy questions about my neighbors? As if I would ever violate any confidence? Only do that if you really want to see an old phart go postal.

    Sorry. This subject has been on my mind, and it makes me angry. I don't get nosy about other people, and appreciate their not getting nosy about me. That goes for the government. The answer is "one."

  8. #38
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    For the record... I did not want any Census Worker coming to my house for a "personal visit." So, I filled out the Official Census Form and mailed it in.

    I was expecting a whole plethora of intrusive questions I felt the government had no business knowing, but to my surprise, I found it to be pretty innocuous.

    Nothing to worry about for another 10 years and no "home visits."
    -Bark'n
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    "The gun is the great equalizer... For it is the gun, that allows the meek to repel the monsters; Whom are bigger, stronger and without conscience, prey on those who without one, would surely perish."

  9. #39
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Maybe, but it doesn't really matter because "we are law abiding people" and so since the law requires us to fill these things out, that is what we should be doing.

    One thing is very very clear about the census. The question of the right of Uncle to inquire about things beyond mere enumeration---whether we individually like answering or not----is settled. Its the law.

    We can grumble all we like, but as with paying taxes, serving on juries, signing up with Selective Service, and lots lots more, we have an obligation of citizenship to be partners with our government and not obstructionists.
    I didn't say I didn't answer the questions.

    I didn't say I obstructed anyone.

    I pay my taxes, I have reported to serve on juries [albeit never selected, something about my work history, son's job, etc], I signed up with Selective Service [albeit I volunteered in the USMC before they did their thing] and I've served my country in lots lots more ways.

    However, that doesn't mean I can't be upset at some of the things they do -- be it gun-control or not stopping illegals by stopping the folk hiring them, or the census or etc.

    IMHO, it really does matter what the law requires in nearly all areas or doesn't require and I reserve my right to gripe.
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  10. #40
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    I too live in a rural area. Unfortunately a Census worker (older woman) came while I was at work. My wife said that the lady was very persistent with her questions but she refused to answer any question except how many people lived in our home. The lady finally gave up and left somewhat exacerbated. I was really hoping they'd show up when I was home but the wife handled it just fine.

  11. #41
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    For the record: my census was completed, all questions answered.

    The purpose of the census is to establish proportional taxation of the states (no longer used since the 16th amendment) and equitable representation in the House.

    The constitution provides for counting the number of "free Persons, including those bound to Service for a Term of Years, and excluding Indians not taxed, three fifths of all other Persons". Amendment 14 eliminated category 3.

    If I am an "Indian not taxed" that is relevant to the original purpose of the census. My skin color is not. My income is not. My education is not. None of those things have any bearing on my right to be equally represented.

    The census should not be used to determine federal funding for schools because there should not be federal funding for schools (exceptions made for military academies).

    The biggest problem I have with it, is my name will now count toward the federal representation of a state where I hold no citizenship. I am a Kansas citizen, counted in Missouri. There seems no provisions to correct for this.

    Participating in the census is compulsory. It is written into the U.S. code. My enumerator was friendly, and my wife and I were polite with him.
    "and suddenly I can not hold back my sword hand's anger"

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  12. #42
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    Quote Originally Posted by Cedar Rat View Post
    I'm a very private person. Some woman drives onto my property back in January with a GPS, I drove her off with dogs. Somebody comes to my door (no mailing address) and hangs nosy forms on my door, I toss them in the barrel. Some guy comes back and wants to ask questions, I ask him the same questions right back. He didn't answer mine, but I'm supposed to answer his? None of his ... business.

    Constitutionally mandated duty? First, show me in the constitution where I've got a duty to do a thing. Then, skip to the bottom and show me the spot where I signed the thing. Then go to the library and find a copy of the works of Lysander Spooner, because you really need to read that book. I Have No Duty.

    And I really, really hate arrogant government workers, or any other kind, temporary or not. Endit.

    Edited To Add: And if somebody came to me and started asking nosy questions about my neighbors? As if I would ever violate any confidence? Only do that if you really want to see an old phart go postal.

    Sorry. This subject has been on my mind, and it makes me angry. I don't get nosy about other people, and appreciate their not getting nosy about me. That goes for the government. The answer is "one."
    You sound like a really fun person to be around...

    As for the "show you" part, I'd suggest reading the actual Constitution and the laws pertaining to the census. I don't care what books you've read - you live here, you are bound to follow the laws of the place you live. As some are so fond of pointing out - if you don't like it, leave.

    I'll paste a semi-lengthy article/explanation from usconsitution.net, just in case you were sick that day in civics class... A few interesting points are highlighted...of course, you have no duty to answer the questions, just as you have no duty not to kill anyone, rob anyone, or break any other law of the land. Just be prepared to accept the consequences.

    Oh, and thanks for your exemplary citizenship.
    In Article 1, Section 2, the Constitution includes the phrase:

    [An] Enumeration shall be made within three Years after the first Meeting of the Congress of the United States, and within every subsequent Term of ten Years, in such Manner as they shall by Law direct.

    Congress first met in 1789, and the first national census was held in 1790.

    There was actually some debate about whether, how, and on what timetable a census should have been held. In early 1790, several members of Congress argued against a census prior to the next election. Some in the Congress, who advocated an immediate census, noted that those who did not want one were the people from states which were generally regarded as being over-represented in the Congress based on the initial figures provided for in the Constitution. Others were concerned about the questions to be asked in the census, while others felt that more questions should be asked to get a better picture of the citizenry.

    For example, on February 2, 1790, Samuel Livermore of New Hampshire lamented that the proposed question about profession would be hard for his constituents to answer, since some had three or four professions, depending on the season. Connecticut Representative Theodore Sedgwick, on the same day, wondered why the questions were not extended further — "The state of society could be ascertained, perhaps, in some degree, by observing [the] proportions."

    The final bill, Statute 2 of March 1, 1790, provided that census marshals and assistants be appointed. The marshals were directed to:

    cause the number of the inhabitants within their respective districts to be taken; omitting in such enumeration Indians not taxed, and distinguishing free persons, including those bound to service for a term of years, from all others; distinguishing also the sexes and colours of free persons, and the free males of sixteen years and upwards from those under that age.

    The act directed that the names of the heads of families be recorded, the number of white males sixteen and older, the number of white males under sixteen, the number of white females, the number of all other free persons, and the number of slaves. Failure of an assistant marshal to make a return, or to make a false return, was punishable by a $200 fine. Failure of a marshal to do the same was punishable by a fine of up to $800. The questions about profession, and other information Representative Sedgwick spoke of, were not made part of the final census. Census day was set at the first Monday in August, 1790. Failure to cooperate with a marshal or assistant was punishable by a $20 fine.

    Today, the controlling law for the U.S. Census is Title 13 of the U.S. Code That law requires that the census be conducted on or about April 1, 1980, and every ten years after that. The returns must be made available within nine months in order to apportion members of the House of Representatives to each of the states. In the intervening years the law requires the Census Bureau to gather statistics about the residents of the United States for use by Congress. The decennial census is provided for at 13 USC 141.

    The law states that the count done in 1980 and every ten years thereafter shall be an actual headcount. The count done in the intervening years need not be an actual headcount, but may use statistical sampling methods to get a reasonable approximations of a head count.

    There are fines for non-response and for false response as well, though the amount has risen from the 1790's $20. Today failure to respond can result in a $100 fine; providing false answers is a more severe offense, and carries a $500 fine. Recent news reports, however, indicate that punishment for failure to respond is not usually enforced. The controlling section of the Code is 13 USC 221.

    Today, all persons are counted as whole persons — the original census counted "other persons" (slaves) as three-fifths persons for the purposes of apportionment. This fractionalization was removed by the 14th Amendment. The Attorney General ruled, in 1940, that there were no longer any Indians in the United States who could be classified as "not taxed." In the Constitution, non-taxed Indians are not counted.

    The number of questions in the decennial census has varied widely since the first in 1790, where census takers logged the name, gender, and race or each member of a household, to 2000, where a multi-page form with dozens of questions was sent to one out of every six households. In 2010, the Census Bureau trimmed the questionnaire to just the basics: name, gender, race, and ethnicity or each person, and whether the dwelling was owned, rented, or "occupied without payment of rent." A more detailed list of questions, called the American Community Survey (ACS), is sent to selected households in addition to the shorter headcount forms and in non-decennial years to allow the Bureau to do statistical sampling. According to the Census Bureau, about 3 million households are selected to receive the ACS each year.

    The law requires, in the case of both the decennial census and the ACS, that all households that get a form must fill it out in its entirety, under penalty. Generally speaking, the Census Bureau is not interested in levying the fine, and prefers to gather the data. If a survey is not returned, the Census can follow up by phone or with a personal visit. There is, however, the threat of a penalty for non-response. The current penalty is $100 for failure to fill out the census forms.

    The authority of the Congress to conduct the census in whatever way it wishes, and thus to require that the forms be filled out is found in the Constitution itself, which notes:

    [The Census] shall be made ... in such Manner as [Congress] shall by Law direct.

    The Congress is also authorized to ask various questions in the census aside from the basic headcount by virtue of this clause and by virtue of the Necessary and Proper Clause.


    Advice to leave the form blank or to fail to fill it in may actually bring more of the government into your life than you want — as noted above, unfiled and incomplete forms will be followed-up upon by actual census workers, either in person or by telephone.
    I suppose if you don't consider following the law and the Constitution a "duty," then there isn't much else to be said... We are a nation of laws. We don't get to choose which ones we like, and which ones we don't - as long as it is the law, it is the law. Fortunately, the Constitution also grants us the means - through our representatives - to change those laws. I'd recommend putting all your energies into doing that rather than driving off random women with dogs...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  13. #43
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Maybe, but it doesn't really matter because "we are law abiding people" and so since the law requires us to fill these things out, that is what we should be doing.

    So when they pass a law requiring you to turn in your guns and get that little "stamp" on your hand you will do it right????


    I LOVE my country and it's constitution.

    I HATE the current governmental srtucture and politicos that are currently running things and will be obstructive in every way possible.

    I had the wife fill in the numerical questions; everything else got NOYFB

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    I think where worried about the wrong threat, I think it’s the girl scouts selling cookies we need to worry about. Have you seen the evil look in their eyes. Those buggers are definitely up to no good. You cant trust them. Also I always see them in packs, they could terrorize your entire family in seconds. We shouldn’t even let them onto our property. We need to lock the doors and hide!!!!!!!

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    Quote Originally Posted by AlexHassin View Post
    I think where worried about the wrong threat, I think it’s the girl scouts selling cookies we need to worry about. Have you seen the evil look in their eyes. Those buggers are definitely up to no good. You cant trust them. Also I always see them in packs, they could terrorize your entire family in seconds. We shouldn’t even let them onto our property. We need to lock the doors and hide!!!!!!!
    I sure thought about it, they did look mean but the thin mints sure are good!

    I agree that some are a little rough on these enumerators, but at the same time you do need to be cautious. I do not agree with unloading a 40 round mag. but i do agree with being very cautious with you have someone show up at your home unannounced. I would not let someone in to my home if I didnt know them, and I feel the same about the census workers. They are no different. dont sick your dogs on them, dont make them stare down the muzzle of your .45, but at the same time don't trust them any more than any other stranger.

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