What's the country coming too?

This is a discussion on What's the country coming too? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; There is a lot of resentment in this country right now for the current immigration situation, and it has a bleed over effect that makes ...

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  1. #61
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    There is a lot of resentment in this country right now for the current immigration situation, and it has a bleed over effect that makes people take aim at people in this country who are from other countrys. Because of 911, we are suspicious of all middle east people, and now its mexicans are the focus. This magnifies things like language differences. I agree with OPFOR that many people are double standard when it comes to freedom issues. The real problem is not people who come here for a better life, but the goverment of our country who has not done its primary job of securing the border and ensuring the immigration process is done correctly. To hate these people to the extent that we dont even want them to speak their language around us is not patriotic or american, just ignorrant and backward redneck philosphy. To move forward, we must think forward.

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  3. #62
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    Well, as a govt employee, I hereby change your name to Backwards McCloseminded. I assume you're good with that - send me all your official documents so that my omnipotent and infallible colleagues can rectify your unfortunate misnomer.

    Man, for a forum dedicated to the preservation of one freedom, there are many here that are extremely rabid about taking away the freedoms of others...
    It's for one simple fact you forget. People come here why? Because this country is better than where they came from and they can do better here. Then why are they so unwilling to assimilate into our society and become a productive member of it? Stand there and whine at me cause you can't speak English and I can't help you when you come into my store? Get out of here...I can refuse to deal with you. The end.

    If you think this country is so great that you would move here and change your lifestyle, you should also be willing to work with the people and NOT try to cry like a baby and attempt to force people to make things easy for you. Screw that.
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
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    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  4. #63
    VIP Member Array cmdrdredd's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    There is a lot of resentment in this country right now for the current immigration situation, and it has a bleed over effect that makes people take aim at people in this country who are from other countrys. Because of 911, we are suspicious of all middle east people, and now its mexicans are the focus. This magnifies things like language differences. I agree with OPFOR that many people are double standard when it comes to freedom issues. The real problem is not people who come here for a better life, but the goverment of our country who has not done its primary job of securing the border and ensuring the immigration process is done correctly. To hate these people to the extent that we dont even want them to speak their language around us is not patriotic or american, just ignorrant and backward redneck philosphy. To move forward, we must think forward.

    WRONG! It's just that people are trying to FORCE us to change by not learning to communicate properly in their new home. Sorry but we were here, you came here. YOU change to fit your new home. I know if things were the other way I'd sure as hell have to learn another language and learn to assimilate myself into their society.

    I am not saying abandon your culture, but don't stand there and whine and moan that everyone needs to learn YOUR language, no sir. You wouldn't do it for us I guaran-damn-tee-it.
    Last edited by HotGuns; June 15th, 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: language workaround
    No free man shall ever be debarred the use of arms.
    -Thomas Jefferson

    Laws are restrictive but sometimes necessary to maintain a civil society. Rights are nonrestrictive but are always necessary to maintain a free society.

  5. #64
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    I don't have a strong view on whether or not English should be our "official" language, but that is because I don't really know what that means in practical terms.

    I don't think making English our official language would change what folks speak in their homes.

    Our corporations would still be free to publish (free speech) and advertise however they saw fit. If they wanted to address an audience of "hearing impaired" individuals, they would still be able to use sign language.

    Our teachers would still have to somehow deal with kids who don't speak English. We can't just kick them out and let them remain uneducated because they come devoid of English skills.

    Last year I was in Holland. Most everyone there spoke English. Most spoke it very very well. No one seemed offended that I wanted to speak in English because I haven't a clue about their language. So, let's say Dutch is their "official" language (I'm just guessing, I don't know if they have designated it that way). What does that mean when I get to Immigration and Customs? Would it mean that because it is their official language they can't find someone to speak with me in my language as a visitor? Would we stop finding translators at international ports of entry if English was our "official" language?

    I am unaware of any US trial courts (maybe somewhere small claims) in which the proceedings are conducted in any language other than English. Maybe that is the way in which English should be our official language (all laws must be written in English and all trials must be conducted in English), but even then, our courts do provide translators. We can't get away from the necessity for translators.

    Similarly, I don't see any legislatures legislating in any language but English. I suppose it wouldn't hurt to legislate that legislation must be written in English.

    So, I don't really know what designating an official language would accomplish.
    Well for the most part I agree that it wouldn't really do anything.

    I do not agree with your Dutch analogy though. You were just a tourist not an immigrant. You were not planning on living there for the rest of your days.

    I do think that in certain places (like CA) it would clear up the States responsibility to its citizens. I do feel that children NEED to be taught English in school. Many areas in So Cal are so PC that they don't even bother anymore.
    Mark Twain:
    The government is merely a servant -- merely a temporary servant; it cannot be its prerogative to determine what is right and what is wrong, and decide who is a
    patriot and who isn't. Its function is to obey orders, not originate them.

  6. #65
    VIP Member Array glockman10mm's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by cmdrdredd View Post
    WRONG! It's just that people are trying to FORCE us to change by not learning to communicate properly in their new home. Sorry but we were here, you came here. YOU change to fit your new home. I know if things were the other way I'd sure as hell have to learn another language and learn to assimilate myself into their society.

    I am not saying abandon your culture, but don't stand there and whine and moan that everyone needs to learn YOUR language, no sir. You wouldn't do it for us I guaran-damn-tee-it.
    I think your emotions on the issue are confusing the real facts here. You are wrong when you say that these people are forcing their language and culture down our throats. It is the big businesses who cater to these groups in an attempt to expand profits. It is your neighbor next door who hires them in order to avoid paying a living wage and benifits so he can raise your prices and pocket more money. It is your politician who has ignored his duties and responsibilities to your country, who is supported financially by those who profit from under payed immigrants to ignore the issue. If you shop at walmart, it is you, who supports illegal immigration, thru the purchase of goods made thru the cheap labor of illegals and sweatshops. I could go on and on, but until people get off this emotional, I am American self rightoues concrete thinking mentality, and start looking at the cause, instead of the effect, we will always be swimming against the current. Vote for people who will do their jobs according to constitutional standard. Start producing goods here in America, that are high quality and selling them abroad. Cut trade with countries who have unfairtrade practices. Don't because you may pay a few bucks more for an American product over a Chinese one. Put America back where she belongs. Oh, and one more thing before I step down from my soapbox, make Iraq and afganistan the 51st and 52nd states of the US, and use it's resources for the good of this country. I think I am finished.
    Last edited by HotGuns; June 15th, 2010 at 12:23 PM. Reason: language workaround

  7. #66
    Distinguished Member Array 21bubba's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think your emotions on the issue are confusing the real facts here. You are wrong when you say that these people are forcing their language and culture down our throats. It is the big businesses who cater to these groups in an attempt to expand profits. It is your neighbor next door who hires them in order to avoid paying a living wage and benifits so he can raise your prices and pocket more money. It is your politician who has ignored his duties and responsibilities to your country, who is supported financially by those who profit from under payed immigrants to ignore the issue. If you shop at walmart, it is you, who supports illegal immigration, thru the purchase of goods made thru the cheap labor of illegals and sweatshops. I could go on and on, but until people get off this emotional, I am American self rightoues concrete thinking mentality, and start looking at the cause, instead of the effect, we will always be swimming against the current. Vote for people who will do their jobs according to constitutional standard. Start producing goods here in America, that are high quality and selling them abroad. Cut trade with countries who have unfairtrade practices. Don't because you may pay a few bucks more for an American product over a Chinese one. Put America back where she belongs. Oh, and one more thing before I step down from my soapbox, make Iraq and afganistan the 51st and 52nd states of the US, and use it's resources for the good of this country. I think I am finished.
    So it's every body except the illegal alien's fault. There are plenty of ways I could make more money, but you know what, they're illegal that's why I don't do them.

    Crossing the border illegally,wanting to change language and culture, yeah I'll get right behind that.
    Last edited by HotGuns; June 15th, 2010 at 12:24 PM. Reason: quoting language workaround

  8. #67
    Senior Member Array Free American's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by OPFOR View Post
    What I am suggesting, however, is that the last thing we need is MORE government intrusion into what is a deeply personal facet of our lives. Mandating language, even if it my mother tongue, sounds double-plus bad to me, if you know what I'm saying...
    Don't misunderstand, I'm not saying the government should mandate...just save money on printing all the foreign language forms, signs and other crap.
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  9. #68
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    Made it had of would we ,won have would south the If < Press #1 And say that Backwords ; )
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    IT'S OUR RIGHTS>THEY WANT TO WRONG
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  10. #69
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    re: glockman10mm agree

    Quote Originally Posted by glockman10mm View Post
    I think your emotions on the issue are confusing the real facts here. You are wrong when you say that these people are forcing their language and culture down our throats.
    This sort of claim (forcing language and culture down our throats) gets said every time there is a new wave of in-migration and every time the economy happens to tank.

    There were similar rumblings when we admitted large numbers of Vietnamese, Laotian, and Cambodian refugees. There were similar things said when we took in large numbers of Cuban refugees. It was said of the Irish, the Italians, the Jews, the Germans, the Japanese and the Chinese.

    In the end, their kids become American, go to Med school and Law school, create businesses and go to work, or go to jail, just like everyone else.

    We do need to stop unlawful entry (with much better border control) and find better ways to deal with those who overstay visas lawfully issued. We certainly need better ways to deal with the systematic destruction of our manufacturing industries and our financial instability.

    But, no one is forcing their culture and language on us. If Spanish is printed on instruction books or on other items (I've seen it on toilet paper) that is because the seller of the item thought he could improve his market share that way. That's a choice made by the provider of the goods, in a free market.

    If there are Spanish language tv programs on your cable system, again, that is the choice of an individual to make some money by catering to a segment of the audience.

    It would likely be entirely unconstitutional to attempt to prevent a merchant from doing these things (a little thing called 1 A in our constitution) assures freedom of the press and freedom of speech. If a merchant wants to print their package label in Morse code, that is their right.

    As I stated in an above post, I'm not necessarily opposed to some law naming English as our official language, I just don't know what that really means and what good it could possibly do.

  11. #70
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    Yo people...

    we dont use language workarounds on this forum.

    ***** is unacceptable here. Please follow the rules and refrain from such use. If you are getting the asterisks in place of a word,then choose a different word.

    Thanks.
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  12. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    I see your location listed as Bogota.I assume that is Bogota, Columbia? If it is I wonder in all seriousness you would answer one question. Have the natives changed their way of life to suit you or have you had to adapt to their customs and cultures?
    The Colombians, like most other countries, have English as the most common second language. American culture, products, and business dominate the Colombian marketplace. Do I have to speak Spanish to shop for groceries? More often than not, sure. Do I have to speak Spanish to engage in official business w/ the Colombian government? No - if they don't speak English already, they'll find someone who does in order to accommodate me. (Note that I try to do most of my business in Spanish as a courtesy, but sometimes I just don't have the vocabulary, especially if it is a very specific or technical subject.)

    If you don't want to do business with someone that doesn't speak English, then don't. But don't try to tell anyone else (or, God forbid, have the government try to mandate) what language they can do business in...

    The simple fact is that the entire world, by and large, has already "adapted" to our culture. They watch our movies and TV shows, wear our clothes, drink our sodas and beer, and so on. There are INFINITELY more non-Americans that speak English than there are Americans who have learned a second language.
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  13. #72
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    Speaking of speaking English...

    Do you know what the largest English speaking country in the world is?

    CHINA

    There are more people in China that speak English than any other country.

    That ought to make one sleep well at night.
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  14. #73
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    I agree with Hopyard and Glockman - the problem is not language, it is incredibly porous borders and a lack of will by the government to close them. The reasons for this lack of will are both economic and political, and the "open border" pull is very strong on both counts. Until we get people in power that will take their oaths seriously and STOP illegal immigration, what language the illegal immigrants speak is of minor concern.

    I also agree that most of this "problem" is one generational - the kids of the immigrants will learn English, as every wave of immigrants have done since forever.
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  15. #74
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    Quote Originally Posted by HotGuns View Post
    Speaking of speaking English...

    Do you know what the largest English speaking country in the world is?

    CHINA

    There are more people in China that speak English than any other country.

    That ought to make one sleep well at night.
    Source? According to Wiki (I know, not perfect by any stretch), China ranks 18th in the total number of English speakers, with 1 million. Compare that with Poland, who ranks 17th, and has 11 million English speakers, and the US, who has more than 250 million English speakers... Even if Wiki's data is a little off, I find it very hard to believe that it's off by a factor of 250...

    An interesting read: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of...total_speakers Notice that more than half of Germans, Austrians, and Swiss speak English; about a third of French, Spanish, and Italians; almost 90% of the Dutch, the Swedes, and the Danes... Now, how many American's speak ANY second language? Between 9 and 25%, depending on the poll, and most of them speak English as their second language...

    Who is accommodating whom, again?
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

  16. #75
    VIP Member Array ctsketch's Avatar
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    my fiancee's parents don't know English, They are very isolated from American society and only have Chinese friends here. my Fiancee often has to accompany them to shop or to do official business, not a good way to live in a country IMO. I know a little Chinese but not enough yet to effectively communicate with them.
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