What would happen if 20 million illegals left the US? - Page 5

What would happen if 20 million illegals left the US?

This is a discussion on What would happen if 20 million illegals left the US? within the Off Topic & Humor Discussion forums, part of the The Back Porch category; Originally Posted by Hopyard Keeping in mind the whole immigration thing is very complex and has a human and moral dilemma-- Oh, Yeah? Try going ...

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Thread: What would happen if 20 million illegals left the US?

  1. #61
    VIP Member Array Guns and more's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Keeping in mind the whole immigration thing is very complex and has a human and moral dilemma--
    Oh, Yeah? Try going into mexico and working without papers and see how far that double talk gets you.
    Illegal is illegal.

    What would happen if 20 million illegals left the US?
    I wouldn't have to press, "1 for English".


  2. #62
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    re: Guns and More

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    Oh, Yeah? Try going into mexico and working without papers and see how far that double talk gets you.
    That is not double talk. It is a factual statement that there is a real human and moral dilemma to this problem.

    What we get a lot of on this board is hate filled spouting and ranting. "Deport them" everyone shouts. Some even shout "open season." You know who and what that sounds like?

    Go read a history book.

    And btw, Mexico's own laws are irrelevant. WE, have allowed this situation to develop and WE are responsible. WE allowed this to happen not by failure to enforce the boarder but by choosing to deliberately hire people who should not be here and by choosing to deliberately not enforce employer sanctions laws.

    WE share the blame for the problem.

    It needs solutions, but that means real and workable answers, not self-satisfying bluster about the impossible, "deport them all," and the immoral "open season."

  3. #63
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post

    And btw, Mexico's own laws are irrelevant.
    No they are not. When the pro-amnesty group speaks, they refer to the border as "some silly line on a map." Yeah, well that silly line is guarded by the mexican army on their southern border to keep illegals out. Doesn't Obama want to look to other countries to see what court rulings they made? Let's follow mexico's example.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    WE, have allowed this situation to develop and WE are responsible. WE allowed this to happen not by failure to enforce the boarder but by choosing to deliberately hire people who should not be here and by choosing to deliberately not enforce employer sanctions laws.
    No, WE didn't. Our corrupt politicians sold us out. They took an oath to defend the constitution and they have not.

    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    "open season."
    I've never heard that. (except when it is made up by the left to garner sympathy for illegals.)

  4. #64
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    re: Guns and more

    Quote Originally Posted by Guns and more View Post
    No they are not. When the pro-amnesty group speaks, they refer to the border as "some silly line on a map." Yeah, well that silly line is guarded by the mexican army on their southern border to keep illegals out. Doesn't Obama want to look to other countries to see what court rulings they made? Let's follow mexico's example.
    First, let be clear, I am not and never have been pro-amnesty. However, there is a huge array of possible responses between the impossible "deport them all" and amnesty. Again, what Mexico does on their side is irrelevant. What we do on our side is what matters. And how we do it matters, because it defines us --hopefully as a humane people. And bringing o into it is quite irrelevant as well. Aside from politicizing the conversation, it seems like BP is far better staffed these days than before. I have no problem with that.

    No, WE didn't. Our corrupt politicians sold us out. They took an oath to defend the constitution and they have not.
    Sorry, our business men sold us out. They are the ones who break the law. We sold ourselves out, little by little. Each time we hired someone to mow the lawn, tend the garden, do a little concrete work.

    I've never heard that. (except when it is made up by the left to garner sympathy for illegals.)
    It has been put up here by several posters over time-- and not out of any sense of sympathy but as a solution to the problem.

  5. #65
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    It is

    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    Why can't this be looked at as a simple "supply and demand" problem? Cut off either one and you solve the problem, and a secure border is the simplest way.
    That is exactly how it should be viewed. But you can't stop it by shutting down supply because the demand creates the supply! Washington is playing Politics with our money. Basically they are buying votes from the groups who are NOT investing in our system. It is very simple, who is paying into out tax structure and who is taking out. The "Net Loss" side is the one benefiting from these policies. I have a very hard working co-worker who is pregnant, her husband is a brand new US Citizen who served in Iraq and he wants to come back to school. They are being forced to forego Day Care costs because she works! Yet, the unemployed by choice can have babies and her/our tax money is paying for the full ride; medical, food, housing etc. This thing is simply upside down.

  6. #66
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    Sorry, our business men sold us out. They are the ones who break the law.
    Sure, the businessmen where trying to cut corners. Maybe because of the flood of government regulations that make it impossible to survive in business and follow all the rules. (Not to excuse them) But everyone would speed if they know there are no cops patrolling. So when Washington made it clear that they had no interest in cracking down on businesses that hired illegals, they opened the floodgates. (Go to Dalton, Ga. That town has completely changed with the influx of illegals to work at the carpet mills. The town is now 50% Hispanic and the schools are having to deal with a population that can't speak English) If I know about it, don't you think ICE knows about it too?
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    We sold ourselves out, little by little. Each time we hired someone to mow the lawn, tend the garden, do a little concrete work.
    That would be, no, no, and, no.
    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    First, let be clear, I am not and never have been pro-amnesty.
    I hear that a lot............usually followed by..."Augh, let the poor hard working folks stay."
    Quote Originally Posted by RebelRabbi View Post
    But you can't stop it by shutting down supply because the demand creates the supply!
    If a water pipe breaks in my house, I shut off the water before I call the plumber. First, stop the flood.

  7. #67
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    You most certainly can stop it if you cut off supply. Look at it like a commodity.

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    Like I've said before, the United States can't possibly be in need of 20,000,000 landscapers and fry cooks. Many of these illegals are engaged in other activities,
    most of them in violation of some law or another.
    And yes we do need to "deport them all", in order to show Mexico and the rest of the world, that we're serious about defending our border and nation.
    The statistics in the original article are frightening, outrageous and shouldn't be tolerated!
    "First gallant South Carolina nobly made the stand."
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    Quote Originally Posted by automatic slim View Post
    Like I've said before, the United States can't possibly be in need of 20,000,000 landscapers and fry cooks. Many of these illegals are engaged in other activities,
    most of them in violation of some law or another.
    And yes we do need to "deport them all", in order to show Mexico and the rest of the world, that we're serious about defending our border and nation.
    The statistics in the original article are frightening, outrageous and shouldn't be tolerated!
    You are correct!
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  10. #70
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    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/im...in;contentBody

    This (at least for the moment) is a link to the actual law suit filed today against AZ.

    It is a worthwhile thing to read, no matter which side you are on, because if you go to the trouble of actually reading it you will learn lots of stuff. Maybe your mind won't be changed, but you should finish with a much greater understanding of the role various Federal Agencies are tasked with, the complexities of immigration law, the intentions of Congress in making the law what it is, and so forth.

    Particularly interesting to me were references made to the fact that there are many reasons an alien may be in the US without any documentation but with the knowledge and permission of Federal authorities. Under the AZ law, these folks though lawfully here would be subject to arrest.

    The text of the suit is also quite interesting and informative on many other aspects of the relevant Federal law.

  11. #71
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    Quote Originally Posted by Hopyard View Post
    http://www.cbsnews.com/htdocs/pdf/im...in;contentBody

    This (at least for the moment) is a link to the actual law suit filed today against AZ.

    It is a worthwhile thing to read, no matter which side you are on, because if you go to the trouble of actually reading it you will learn lots of stuff. Maybe your mind won't be changed, but you should finish with a much greater understanding of the role various Federal Agencies are tasked with, the complexities of immigration law, the intentions of Congress in making the law what it is, and so forth.

    Particularly interesting to me were references made to the fact that there are many reasons an alien may be in the US without any documentation but with the knowledge and permission of Federal authorities. Under the AZ law, these folks though lawfully here would be subject to arrest.

    The text of the suit is also quite interesting and informative on many other aspects of the relevant Federal law.
    Try FOX!
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  12. #72
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    The Illegals respresent to many new votes that are to important. I can't say anymore.

    Like He said, Try Fox!
    Boze
    "If we lose freedom here, there's no place to escape to, this is the last stand on earth." Ronald Reagan

    "Gentlemen, Prepare to defend yourselves" SGM Basil Plumley

  13. #73
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    re: JBozeman--Illegals do not represent votes

    Quote Originally Posted by JBozeman View Post
    The Illegals respresent to many new votes that are to important. I can't say anymore.

    Like He said, Try Fox!
    Non-citizens don't have a right to vote, so how exactly is it that illegals represent votes? Certainly not until they somehow become legal, and then somehow become citizens. Under present circumstances that should be never.

    What you are really charging and concerned with is that citizens of South or Central American origin might vote their own interests, as does each and every group and sub-group within our society.

    Were you complaining when the FL Cuban community voted solidly with one side of the political spectrum?

  14. #74
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    key word "should never happen" but it can. present circumstances are changing. they've changed in the past. amnesty happened once. it can happen again. and who do they all vote for now? more likley the party who granted them amnesty. its a known fact. democrats know they can win votes if they give amnesty to illegals. they won't vote for their actual interests. they're uninformed, ignorant, and close minded to what democracy means. they're so ingrained with the socialist corruption going on in mexico that they vote for what helps them make money by doing the least amt of work progressivism, communism and not what helps the country thrive and continue to be free.

  15. #75
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    Quote Originally Posted by 21bubba View Post
    You most certainly can stop it if you cut off supply. Look at it like a commodity.
    Yep. Just like we stopped the drug problem by making that commodity illegal, and spending hundreds of billions of dollars (trillions by now?) to cut off the supply. And Prohibition - wasn't it great that there was NO alcohol in the entire country for those 13 years? There are two utterly resounding success stories regarding the elimination of a commodity by stopping the supply, right? Sure glad there are no drugs in the US anymore...

    As for Mexico guarding its southern border...sure they do. But do you know where the vast majority of Central and South American illegals come from? Right - across the Mexican border. BOTH of them. Obviously, those Mexican laws you seek to emulate don't work worth a squat either.

    It just isn't that simple, chest pounding and self-soothing behaviors aside.

    Also, read the lawsuit. I completely agree with the intent of the Arizona law, but there are some serious Constitutional issues with it (not insurmountable, perhaps, but issues). Since most of the members here portent to be "Constitutionalists," it might be worth actually reading about the challenges that the Arizona law has launched against that august document...
    A man fires a rifle for many years, and he goes to war. And afterward he turns the rifle in at the armory, and he believes he's finished with the rifle. But no matter what else he might do with his hands - love a woman, build a house, change his son's diaper - his hands remember the rifle.

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